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	<title>Comments on: Ancient Greece :  Pericles (Part I)</title>
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		<title>By: Ancient Greece : Pericles (Part I) &#124; Boris Johnson &#124; Greece today</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2009/10/29/ancient-greece-pericles-i/comment-page-1/#comment-27064</link>
		<dc:creator>Ancient Greece : Pericles (Part I) &#124; Boris Johnson &#124; Greece today</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 16:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] See the original post here: Ancient Greece : Pericles (Part I) &#124; Boris Johnson [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] See the original post here: Ancient Greece : Pericles (Part I) | Boris Johnson [...]</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-27064" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27064', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="" /> <span id="karma-27064-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-27064" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('27064', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="" /> <span id="karma-27064-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Scott aka Xenophon</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2009/10/29/ancient-greece-pericles-i/comment-page-1/#comment-26857</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott aka Xenophon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hello there are some very interesting thoughts on this website Mr Johnson.As the founder of The Spartan Society most of us are ex-forces who now help to educate the public at Museums and Shows around the country.We are based in the Midlands our HQ being at The Lunt Fort Coventry (This is an old purpose built Roman Fort) with an on site Museum.We have a membership of over forty three with ages from seven to seventy with an avid love of history please see our website at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.spartan-society.co.uk/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.spartan-society.co.uk&lt;/a&gt;. If you ever require a visual portrayal of what the Ancient greek Spartans looked like in all their armour we would be only to happy to help out as an honoury Guard.In particuler at perhaps the 2012 olympics or any displays in London. your sincerely Xenophon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello there are some very interesting thoughts on this website Mr Johnson.As the founder of The Spartan Society most of us are ex-forces who now help to educate the public at Museums and Shows around the country.We are based in the Midlands our HQ being at The Lunt Fort Coventry (This is an old purpose built Roman Fort) with an on site Museum.We have a membership of over forty three with ages from seven to seventy with an avid love of history please see our website at <a href="http://www.spartan-society.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.spartan-society.co.uk</a>. If you ever require a visual portrayal of what the Ancient greek Spartans looked like in all their armour we would be only to happy to help out as an honoury Guard.In particuler at perhaps the 2012 olympics or any displays in London. your sincerely Xenophon.</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-26857" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('26857', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="" /> <span id="karma-26857-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">1</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-26857" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('26857', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="" /> <span id="karma-26857-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: janina davison-forder</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2009/10/29/ancient-greece-pericles-i/comment-page-1/#comment-26720</link>
		<dc:creator>janina davison-forder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boris-johnson.com/?p=1908#comment-26720</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-26708&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ross J Warren&lt;/a&gt;: 
well being an athiest myself i dont tend to believe n a higher power as such...
my belief if any is an extension of my morals really i think that in the end everyone gets what they deserve.
If you refer to the song by johnny cash &#039;when the man comes around&#039; it may be a biblical song but the idea of a judgement day seems a very logical idea to me, although  cannot tell you who or what i think it is that will judge who is right or wrong, im just really hoping that im right.
Heaven and hell i believe are here with us on earth we live through hell we live through heaven at different times in our life.....
We can submit ourselves to both in our minds if neither are present at the time if you refer back to what ive said about conscience.
some people need their faith to look to so they can feel comforted in knowing that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, some need to be organised into groups to educate them on how to live by this faith some dont. 
Many cults yes i agree are quite &#039;out there&#039; and normally are not even based upon reality let alone religion, i suppose you would label pagans a cult although i think they have the right idea what with the summer and winter solstice and such like. That makes sense to me worshipping the things you can see and feel all around you. just as the greeks/egyptians and i suppose the aztecs all had a god for each aspect of life. i see this not so much a being / idol but just a symbol which groups together all aspects and variations of that particular element to make it easier to focus themselves upon. after all we see people and interact with them all the time and know how to act towards, praise, comfort, enrage each other, where as we could not begin to think of how to do the same to say the sun for example.
  Yes we should be grateful for all the different things that have come together to make human life possible , it is in fact  a &#039;miracle&#039; that we are here and living at all, if one of these many things was slightly out of sync the human race would never of formed am i not right?
I dont have bad feelings against religion at all if thats what a person needs deep down to live a happy life then so be it you cannot label anyone wrong or right for thier own beliefs.
Orders such as the pagans i would call a primary cult wherein they still are worshipping something that does make sense and most of the time are not harming nor offending anyone by their actions. But then we see so many secondary cults where they are not based upon the origional idea of faith but the primary cults and these people seem to get it rather confused and pick out the parts they want to from them, usually resulting in a harmful/ dangerous way of thinking and living their lives.
Things such as satanism etc well... thats just completely opposite to faith really instead of believing in the greater good they are in fact believing in the evil and all we strive to exclude from faiths.
All faiths though go on the idea that their is a higher power than them someone who knows and sees all and will look after them and allow them to rest with them when their time is up on this earth, to think the struggle was worth it.
we may call this power god, jesus, budda mohammed etc but they are all the same in theory.
Religions just have their own tradditions , their way of worshipping their &#039;god&#039; which they believe is right and there is nothing wrong with that, people so strong in faith would not disagree with my point of view i think as i am not trying to offend nor proove them wrong just live as i feel is right.
I myself do not need commandments or a holy book or script as the torah or koran to tel me what is right or wrong i know thesethings instinctivly and live my ife by strict morals and codes which i belive are right, i do not steal, kill, commit adultery, turn down someone in need of help even if i will see no personal benefit , that is not what i look for my prize if you may frome helping a fellow man is the way i feel knowing ive done something to help and madesomeone smile even for a while . Even if it is thrown back in my face then well... at least i tried and i am the better man or woman for doing so.
so i believe any faith would see me as a good person although  do not commit myself to worship etc i am doing right which is what religion teaches.
The only thing that does get me is when someone mis-enterprets their holy book/script etc and translates it wrong leading to them thinking that killing and maming s right and acceptable. These are just easily lead and confused members of a faith and have no effect i believe on how a faith is judged in my mind.
I hope you agree with me and hope i have not offended anyone by this, im sure i havent but this is my belief just as yours is your point of view.
If i do look to anyone for guidance i envision my late father and partner may they rest in peace, as i saw them in life and know for a fct they were real as i lived each day and interacted with them , i beieve they guide me through hard times as they are personal to me and have a real connection.
where as i find it hard to understand how an aall seeing all knowing being can let all theevils of this world continue and watch people in poverty, wars, innocent babies die etc. But then how many people live on this world i dont think its possible to keep a watch over all of us.
i would be interested on your views on this...
janina davison-forder</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a class="atr_link" href="#comment-26708" rel="nofollow">Ross J Warren</a>:<br />
well being an athiest myself i dont tend to believe n a higher power as such&#8230;<br />
my belief if any is an extension of my morals really i think that in the end everyone gets what they deserve.<br />
If you refer to the song by johnny cash &#8216;when the man comes around&#8217; it may be a biblical song but the idea of a judgement day seems a very logical idea to me, although  cannot tell you who or what i think it is that will judge who is right or wrong, im just really hoping that im right.<br />
Heaven and hell i believe are here with us on earth we live through hell we live through heaven at different times in our life&#8230;..<br />
We can submit ourselves to both in our minds if neither are present at the time if you refer back to what ive said about conscience.<br />
some people need their faith to look to so they can feel comforted in knowing that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, some need to be organised into groups to educate them on how to live by this faith some dont.<br />
Many cults yes i agree are quite &#8216;out there&#8217; and normally are not even based upon reality let alone religion, i suppose you would label pagans a cult although i think they have the right idea what with the summer and winter solstice and such like. That makes sense to me worshipping the things you can see and feel all around you. just as the greeks/egyptians and i suppose the aztecs all had a god for each aspect of life. i see this not so much a being / idol but just a symbol which groups together all aspects and variations of that particular element to make it easier to focus themselves upon. after all we see people and interact with them all the time and know how to act towards, praise, comfort, enrage each other, where as we could not begin to think of how to do the same to say the sun for example.<br />
  Yes we should be grateful for all the different things that have come together to make human life possible , it is in fact  a &#8216;miracle&#8217; that we are here and living at all, if one of these many things was slightly out of sync the human race would never of formed am i not right?<br />
I dont have bad feelings against religion at all if thats what a person needs deep down to live a happy life then so be it you cannot label anyone wrong or right for thier own beliefs.<br />
Orders such as the pagans i would call a primary cult wherein they still are worshipping something that does make sense and most of the time are not harming nor offending anyone by their actions. But then we see so many secondary cults where they are not based upon the origional idea of faith but the primary cults and these people seem to get it rather confused and pick out the parts they want to from them, usually resulting in a harmful/ dangerous way of thinking and living their lives.<br />
Things such as satanism etc well&#8230; thats just completely opposite to faith really instead of believing in the greater good they are in fact believing in the evil and all we strive to exclude from faiths.<br />
All faiths though go on the idea that their is a higher power than them someone who knows and sees all and will look after them and allow them to rest with them when their time is up on this earth, to think the struggle was worth it.<br />
we may call this power god, jesus, budda mohammed etc but they are all the same in theory.<br />
Religions just have their own tradditions , their way of worshipping their &#8216;god&#8217; which they believe is right and there is nothing wrong with that, people so strong in faith would not disagree with my point of view i think as i am not trying to offend nor proove them wrong just live as i feel is right.<br />
I myself do not need commandments or a holy book or script as the torah or koran to tel me what is right or wrong i know thesethings instinctivly and live my ife by strict morals and codes which i belive are right, i do not steal, kill, commit adultery, turn down someone in need of help even if i will see no personal benefit , that is not what i look for my prize if you may frome helping a fellow man is the way i feel knowing ive done something to help and madesomeone smile even for a while . Even if it is thrown back in my face then well&#8230; at least i tried and i am the better man or woman for doing so.<br />
so i believe any faith would see me as a good person although  do not commit myself to worship etc i am doing right which is what religion teaches.<br />
The only thing that does get me is when someone mis-enterprets their holy book/script etc and translates it wrong leading to them thinking that killing and maming s right and acceptable. These are just easily lead and confused members of a faith and have no effect i believe on how a faith is judged in my mind.<br />
I hope you agree with me and hope i have not offended anyone by this, im sure i havent but this is my belief just as yours is your point of view.<br />
If i do look to anyone for guidance i envision my late father and partner may they rest in peace, as i saw them in life and know for a fct they were real as i lived each day and interacted with them , i beieve they guide me through hard times as they are personal to me and have a real connection.<br />
where as i find it hard to understand how an aall seeing all knowing being can let all theevils of this world continue and watch people in poverty, wars, innocent babies die etc. But then how many people live on this world i dont think its possible to keep a watch over all of us.<br />
i would be interested on your views on this&#8230;<br />
janina davison-forder</p>
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		<title>By: Ross J Warren</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2009/10/29/ancient-greece-pericles-i/comment-page-1/#comment-26708</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross J Warren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 23:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boris-johnson.com/?p=1908#comment-26708</guid>
		<description>Great Stuff Sir and just what the public are lacking an insight into our long held Conservative principles.

Janina I would say just go with the simple truth, let god/dess into your heart and live your life in the light of that received wisdom. Of course we use the Jesus Prayer, and it works just fine, but all true paths will get you there, avoid the cults like a plague.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Stuff Sir and just what the public are lacking an insight into our long held Conservative principles.</p>
<p>Janina I would say just go with the simple truth, let god/dess into your heart and live your life in the light of that received wisdom. Of course we use the Jesus Prayer, and it works just fine, but all true paths will get you there, avoid the cults like a plague.</p>
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		<title>By: janina davison-forder</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2009/10/29/ancient-greece-pericles-i/comment-page-1/#comment-26651</link>
		<dc:creator>janina davison-forder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boris-johnson.com/?p=1908#comment-26651</guid>
		<description>excuse the chart was quite well laid out till i posted it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>excuse the chart was quite well laid out till i posted it</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-26651" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('26651', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="" /> <span id="karma-26651-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-26651" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('26651', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="" /> <span id="karma-26651-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: janina davison-forder</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2009/10/29/ancient-greece-pericles-i/comment-page-1/#comment-26650</link>
		<dc:creator>janina davison-forder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boris-johnson.com/?p=1908#comment-26650</guid>
		<description>Now when we think of the Greeks (the ancient type ) we immediately think of great thinkers, philosophers ..education was set in stone (yes i know stone tablets very funny sigh).
But what was it in fact that these philosophers were learning? 
I doubt very much they had lessons plans and seperate subjects such as science english (or greek lol) and      maths. And i am very sure that there was no history lesson after all it would be a very short syllabus would it not?
For before their time 
(unless by some strange event where their ancestors had made the first computers, well there would&#039;ve been no shortage of ram  ) there were not records to my knowledge of the achievements and ways of the elder generation. 
This i suppose does not count in lessons that have been passed down through the ages but basically that&#039;s just as bad as Chinese whispers, i mean, look ho many times the bible has been re-written translated etc etc, or the amount of times our calendar has changed.
no past knowledge had a lot of restrictions, limited to within the family tree i believe with trades being passed down and improved upon through the ages with application of new technologies. After all surnames were really the recognition of your trade at first bobby baker for instance the local baker ,butcher,smith (blacksmith) i could go on but none of us really want to be subjected to that now do we? No back to my point....
So what were they learning They had little or no ways of proving their findings whatever they were, i am sure one man could not keep traveling in such a straight path as to navigate a perfect circular track around the diameter of the globe, no that&#039;s just silly.
so i very much doubt they had teachers to give lessons such as sociology and political technique. No one was really sure of what to do they were just starting out.
And im very sure sociology was not a core subject.
in those times you were born you learn t a trade your wife was the keeper of the house and children and maybe earn t a bit of pita bread buy learning to make blankets to sell at he local market, which would for peasants i suppose would be more bartering for food and supplies rather than currency most of the time.
You worked if you didn&#039;t worked well....you died.
If a family member became sick or old they would rely upon the good nature of their siblings and children and if they could not be bothered to keep them n food and cloth ...you were off on your chariot to the sky.
so that&#039;s what people did , what they knew, and who was their to teach them anything else?
Learning was reserved for the more privileged. You could only hope your daughter may find love in a higher place , but even then she may just disown you and then there is one less worker bee for the hive!
So what could you do to protect yourself apart from join up with like minded people that basically shared anything in common from place of residence to how you named your live stock just to stop the &#039;sheep-less&#039; nights!
An so groups were formed within land areas then groups within groups such as our modern day religions..
(stage 1)          (2)               (3)           (4)
                                [---catholic
             [----roman catholic[---protestant    
christianty---                  [---baptist..jehovahswitness
            [----c of e         etc        scientology    
                etc?                            etc  
     
Judaism
Hindu
Muslim
Sikh
Buddhist
etc etc
after that we start getting major cults and such like which i suppose is a whole new tree of its own ??
Excuse my not so educated example but i do find the religion system quite confusing at the best of times , i did try, hey and anyway i need not of drawn up a tree i was talking about something entirely different hmm.... what was i talking about oh yes.... 

So blindly joining forces with every tom-icles dick-icles and harry-icles they could just to protect thier well being and hoping to be looked after maybe when thier family flew the coop. Just like unions of the modern day apart from they had no set pension plan and a strike would of had no effect at all!
This also led to tyrannical rule , no one really knew anymore than thier trade and family unit , or the difference between the male and female form.
So the first person to come along with a half decent idea and a bit of &#039;mojo&#039; shall we say , people would listen as they did not need to think themselves . well not that exactly but there was no real guidelines to expand upon really, the law was determined by whoever felt like it at the time i will use the phrase again &#039;nothing was set in stone&#039;.
So the real great thinkers were infact the tyrannts as they used a bit of the ole imagination or maybe it had come to them in a dream (or from hallucinations from they vast body odor) who knows ?
But these guys surely did not sit and learn this this was of thier own making!
This is until the first forms of government were introduced by one of these thinkers .
But this was a time for reform leader yes warlord not so much in this case. This guy just wanted a nice life firstly as a noble man he had access to wine women and song now why loose that and go and get killed at the first chance available NO build a structured society where everyone (men that is slightly sexist but never mind lol)
could sit and discuss what the collective thought was best for their lives. Well why not? Let them quibble amongst themselves while he had a wife and a bit on the side to keep up with (well you never know).
deep don he may of really been like that what do we have to prove his personality i am under the impression his best friend hasn&#039;t just popped in for a cuppa after he thought up the idea for a time machine?? If he has i do apologize and now feel quite silly lol

No seriously, people tend to target others as a way of hiding their own behaviors and cimon seemed to prove this point by opposing the Spartans after all so we cant really say for sure can we??
And i have the feeling if no one cared about this judgment he would not of botherd to recall him???
And well if i was cimon i would of been rather too peeved about the whole pa-lava to come back anyway, but maybe the grudge was another thing not yet discovered in those times too?
And well in-the end had Pericles in fact been the great great thinker he was made out to be ? or was he in fact committing one of the very first acts of plagiarism known to man by taking on someone else s idea adding a few bits and cutting and pasting here and there?
That my friends is what makes ancient history such an exciting subject! As We do not hold a copy of the ancient Greeks &#039;wikipedia&#039; to hand we can never be really sure of all of the facts. This in turn leads to great discussions theories and articles from many different people making the possibilities are endless! These sort of topics can be debated and debated until the end of time with no one really knowing for sure what exactly went on.
Then again if we have not managed to destroy our planet with nuclear war or such like in 200,000 years time who knows that our future generations will not be in the same position when explaining our slightly more organized yet still not perfected way of life in times to come.
Or will they be as we are with the Greeks?
To them we may be operating on windows 95 and they have bypassed windows 7, 700,000 and even linux 3,ooo,ooo
and be operating on a whole new platform which is in no way compatible with our neanderthal technology and not even worth attempting a boot disk nor even a data recovery mission, so hopefully we give them the gift the Greeks have given us.....uncertainty! 
Would the ultimate existence not be when we have no need for government or political parties of any sort but instead every human being knowing instinctively what is wrong and right and abiding to these laws with no need for input from any sort of law giver. Paradise if you must. 
But for some reason i do not expect that will ever be the case as human beings seem to thrive on conflict. If you went a whole year without an argument or something turning out not quite so well as you thought would you be happy?
With no need for debate what would we do to improve our minds and our instinctive yearning for knowledge?
We as a race learn from each other someone else is always bound to know something that you do not, and to come to the conclusion that they are in fact right about this do we not have to research and debate the point?
The human mind is advanced but also quite stubborn and we will not give in till we know we are really wrong, even then a lot of us still don&#039;t give in due to principle!
We All know whats right and wrong, helping our fellow man is right (although not always appreciated) taking the life of another is wrong these are simple things that everyone knows from birth but for some reason we do not adhere to our instincts?? In our hearts we need not be reminded of this deep down we know and if we listened to our selves there would be no reason for these acts to be congratulated nor punishable.

That&#039;s why we have that little nagging voice that we call a conscience! The fail safe of the human race which makes the guilty confess. But then we contradict ourselves ...no wonder we get confused every so often after all establishments such as the church teach forgiveness and provide services such as confession which ultimately tell us  
&quot;well its not a good thing that you converted your brothers wife but if repent than it will be like nothing ever happened&quot; please don&#039;t get me wrong i am not attacking the church we do the same within the courts.
Who is to say how long you should be punished for an act that you should of known not to do in the first place. Really the real forgiveness comes from within the mind of the offender no one else. you may spend 15 years in prison but live the rest of your life entrapped in guilt in your own mind, which mite i add is a far worse punishment than anything we as a governing power can enforce.
Anyway.....(sorry about all the waffle (o:  ) 

The Greeks yes started us on a track which has been changed along the way with both our growing intelligence as a race and with our ever expanding technologies and right to free speech. Although we still cannot prevent crimes would prevention not be better than cure?
The Greeks did the best they could with the options available to them and gave us many a great thinker and although being so far away still managed to have an impact on our modern lives so they must of been doing something right!
Maybe if we were able to give our knowledge of human behavior and the workings of the mind to the Greeks without passing down our technology and new found aggression then maybe....just maybe we would of created a easy peaceful life for all?
Then again...
its all greek to me!
JDFORDER</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now when we think of the Greeks (the ancient type ) we immediately think of great thinkers, philosophers ..education was set in stone (yes i know stone tablets very funny sigh).<br />
But what was it in fact that these philosophers were learning?<br />
I doubt very much they had lessons plans and seperate subjects such as science english (or greek lol) and      maths. And i am very sure that there was no history lesson after all it would be a very short syllabus would it not?<br />
For before their time<br />
(unless by some strange event where their ancestors had made the first computers, well there would&#8217;ve been no shortage of ram  ) there were not records to my knowledge of the achievements and ways of the elder generation.<br />
This i suppose does not count in lessons that have been passed down through the ages but basically that&#8217;s just as bad as Chinese whispers, i mean, look ho many times the bible has been re-written translated etc etc, or the amount of times our calendar has changed.<br />
no past knowledge had a lot of restrictions, limited to within the family tree i believe with trades being passed down and improved upon through the ages with application of new technologies. After all surnames were really the recognition of your trade at first bobby baker for instance the local baker ,butcher,smith (blacksmith) i could go on but none of us really want to be subjected to that now do we? No back to my point&#8230;.<br />
So what were they learning They had little or no ways of proving their findings whatever they were, i am sure one man could not keep traveling in such a straight path as to navigate a perfect circular track around the diameter of the globe, no that&#8217;s just silly.<br />
so i very much doubt they had teachers to give lessons such as sociology and political technique. No one was really sure of what to do they were just starting out.<br />
And im very sure sociology was not a core subject.<br />
in those times you were born you learn t a trade your wife was the keeper of the house and children and maybe earn t a bit of pita bread buy learning to make blankets to sell at he local market, which would for peasants i suppose would be more bartering for food and supplies rather than currency most of the time.<br />
You worked if you didn&#8217;t worked well&#8230;.you died.<br />
If a family member became sick or old they would rely upon the good nature of their siblings and children and if they could not be bothered to keep them n food and cloth &#8230;you were off on your chariot to the sky.<br />
so that&#8217;s what people did , what they knew, and who was their to teach them anything else?<br />
Learning was reserved for the more privileged. You could only hope your daughter may find love in a higher place , but even then she may just disown you and then there is one less worker bee for the hive!<br />
So what could you do to protect yourself apart from join up with like minded people that basically shared anything in common from place of residence to how you named your live stock just to stop the &#8217;sheep-less&#8217; nights!<br />
An so groups were formed within land areas then groups within groups such as our modern day religions..<br />
(stage 1)          (2)               (3)           (4)<br />
                                [&#8212;catholic<br />
             [&#8212;-roman catholic[&#8212;protestant<br />
christianty&#8212;                  [&#8212;baptist..jehovahswitness<br />
            [&#8212;-c of e         etc        scientology<br />
                etc?                            etc  </p>
<p>Judaism<br />
Hindu<br />
Muslim<br />
Sikh<br />
Buddhist<br />
etc etc<br />
after that we start getting major cults and such like which i suppose is a whole new tree of its own ??<br />
Excuse my not so educated example but i do find the religion system quite confusing at the best of times , i did try, hey and anyway i need not of drawn up a tree i was talking about something entirely different hmm&#8230;. what was i talking about oh yes&#8230;. </p>
<p>So blindly joining forces with every tom-icles dick-icles and harry-icles they could just to protect thier well being and hoping to be looked after maybe when thier family flew the coop. Just like unions of the modern day apart from they had no set pension plan and a strike would of had no effect at all!<br />
This also led to tyrannical rule , no one really knew anymore than thier trade and family unit , or the difference between the male and female form.<br />
So the first person to come along with a half decent idea and a bit of &#8216;mojo&#8217; shall we say , people would listen as they did not need to think themselves . well not that exactly but there was no real guidelines to expand upon really, the law was determined by whoever felt like it at the time i will use the phrase again &#8216;nothing was set in stone&#8217;.<br />
So the real great thinkers were infact the tyrannts as they used a bit of the ole imagination or maybe it had come to them in a dream (or from hallucinations from they vast body odor) who knows ?<br />
But these guys surely did not sit and learn this this was of thier own making!<br />
This is until the first forms of government were introduced by one of these thinkers .<br />
But this was a time for reform leader yes warlord not so much in this case. This guy just wanted a nice life firstly as a noble man he had access to wine women and song now why loose that and go and get killed at the first chance available NO build a structured society where everyone (men that is slightly sexist but never mind lol)<br />
could sit and discuss what the collective thought was best for their lives. Well why not? Let them quibble amongst themselves while he had a wife and a bit on the side to keep up with (well you never know).<br />
deep don he may of really been like that what do we have to prove his personality i am under the impression his best friend hasn&#8217;t just popped in for a cuppa after he thought up the idea for a time machine?? If he has i do apologize and now feel quite silly lol</p>
<p>No seriously, people tend to target others as a way of hiding their own behaviors and cimon seemed to prove this point by opposing the Spartans after all so we cant really say for sure can we??<br />
And i have the feeling if no one cared about this judgment he would not of botherd to recall him???<br />
And well if i was cimon i would of been rather too peeved about the whole pa-lava to come back anyway, but maybe the grudge was another thing not yet discovered in those times too?<br />
And well in-the end had Pericles in fact been the great great thinker he was made out to be ? or was he in fact committing one of the very first acts of plagiarism known to man by taking on someone else s idea adding a few bits and cutting and pasting here and there?<br />
That my friends is what makes ancient history such an exciting subject! As We do not hold a copy of the ancient Greeks &#8216;wikipedia&#8217; to hand we can never be really sure of all of the facts. This in turn leads to great discussions theories and articles from many different people making the possibilities are endless! These sort of topics can be debated and debated until the end of time with no one really knowing for sure what exactly went on.<br />
Then again if we have not managed to destroy our planet with nuclear war or such like in 200,000 years time who knows that our future generations will not be in the same position when explaining our slightly more organized yet still not perfected way of life in times to come.<br />
Or will they be as we are with the Greeks?<br />
To them we may be operating on windows 95 and they have bypassed windows 7, 700,000 and even linux 3,ooo,ooo<br />
and be operating on a whole new platform which is in no way compatible with our neanderthal technology and not even worth attempting a boot disk nor even a data recovery mission, so hopefully we give them the gift the Greeks have given us&#8230;..uncertainty!<br />
Would the ultimate existence not be when we have no need for government or political parties of any sort but instead every human being knowing instinctively what is wrong and right and abiding to these laws with no need for input from any sort of law giver. Paradise if you must.<br />
But for some reason i do not expect that will ever be the case as human beings seem to thrive on conflict. If you went a whole year without an argument or something turning out not quite so well as you thought would you be happy?<br />
With no need for debate what would we do to improve our minds and our instinctive yearning for knowledge?<br />
We as a race learn from each other someone else is always bound to know something that you do not, and to come to the conclusion that they are in fact right about this do we not have to research and debate the point?<br />
The human mind is advanced but also quite stubborn and we will not give in till we know we are really wrong, even then a lot of us still don&#8217;t give in due to principle!<br />
We All know whats right and wrong, helping our fellow man is right (although not always appreciated) taking the life of another is wrong these are simple things that everyone knows from birth but for some reason we do not adhere to our instincts?? In our hearts we need not be reminded of this deep down we know and if we listened to our selves there would be no reason for these acts to be congratulated nor punishable.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why we have that little nagging voice that we call a conscience! The fail safe of the human race which makes the guilty confess. But then we contradict ourselves &#8230;no wonder we get confused every so often after all establishments such as the church teach forgiveness and provide services such as confession which ultimately tell us<br />
&#8220;well its not a good thing that you converted your brothers wife but if repent than it will be like nothing ever happened&#8221; please don&#8217;t get me wrong i am not attacking the church we do the same within the courts.<br />
Who is to say how long you should be punished for an act that you should of known not to do in the first place. Really the real forgiveness comes from within the mind of the offender no one else. you may spend 15 years in prison but live the rest of your life entrapped in guilt in your own mind, which mite i add is a far worse punishment than anything we as a governing power can enforce.<br />
Anyway&#8230;..(sorry about all the waffle (o:  ) </p>
<p>The Greeks yes started us on a track which has been changed along the way with both our growing intelligence as a race and with our ever expanding technologies and right to free speech. Although we still cannot prevent crimes would prevention not be better than cure?<br />
The Greeks did the best they could with the options available to them and gave us many a great thinker and although being so far away still managed to have an impact on our modern lives so they must of been doing something right!<br />
Maybe if we were able to give our knowledge of human behavior and the workings of the mind to the Greeks without passing down our technology and new found aggression then maybe&#8230;.just maybe we would of created a easy peaceful life for all?<br />
Then again&#8230;<br />
its all greek to me!<br />
JDFORDER</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-26650" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('26650', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="" /> <span id="karma-26650-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">2</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-26650" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('26650', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="" /> <span id="karma-26650-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2009/10/29/ancient-greece-pericles-i/comment-page-1/#comment-26641</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 10:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boris-johnson.com/?p=1908#comment-26641</guid>
		<description>How would Pericles have handled the union and the postal strike?  have them strung up or worse I imagine</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How would Pericles have handled the union and the postal strike?  have them strung up or worse I imagine</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-26641" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('26641', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="" /> <span id="karma-26641-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-26641" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('26641', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="" /> <span id="karma-26641-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Pericles</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2009/10/29/ancient-greece-pericles-i/comment-page-1/#comment-26629</link>
		<dc:creator>Pericles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boris-johnson.com/?p=1908#comment-26629</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-26624&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rich&lt;/a&gt;:
Hello, Rich.

His influence might well be said to have survived him not just by a quarter-century but by millennia ;  this, however, is a specific reference to the Second (Great) Peloponnesian War, which we’ll be touching on in complementary articles next week.

So, not wishing to steal the next act’s thunder, so to speak, ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a class="atr_link" href="#comment-26624" rel="nofollow">Rich</a>:<br />
Hello, Rich.</p>
<p>His influence might well be said to have survived him not just by a quarter-century but by millennia ;  this, however, is a specific reference to the Second (Great) Peloponnesian War, which we’ll be touching on in complementary articles next week.</p>
<p>So, not wishing to steal the next act’s thunder, so to speak, &#8230;</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-26629" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('26629', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="" /> <span id="karma-26629-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-26629" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('26629', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="" /> <span id="karma-26629-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tohm hamt</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2009/10/29/ancient-greece-pericles-i/comment-page-1/#comment-26626</link>
		<dc:creator>tohm hamt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boris-johnson.com/?p=1908#comment-26626</guid>
		<description>The Parisian bike hire scheme is having terrible problems with bikes being stolen and vandalised.  Why does Boris Johnson not think this will happen in London?

He&#039;s proving kack-handed and feeble at promoting cycling.  The Congestion Charge got people on bikes.  That wasn&#039;t Boris Johnson.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Parisian bike hire scheme is having terrible problems with bikes being stolen and vandalised.  Why does Boris Johnson not think this will happen in London?</p>
<p>He&#8217;s proving kack-handed and feeble at promoting cycling.  The Congestion Charge got people on bikes.  That wasn&#8217;t Boris Johnson.</p>
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		<title>By: Fliss</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2009/10/29/ancient-greece-pericles-i/comment-page-1/#comment-26625</link>
		<dc:creator>Fliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boris-johnson.com/?p=1908#comment-26625</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-26623&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Philipa&lt;/a&gt;: Great Festival on topical subjects thanks Philipa - such as &quot;Rethinking education – the new crisis of adult authority in the classroom &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a class="atr_link" href="#comment-26623" rel="nofollow">Philipa</a>: Great Festival on topical subjects thanks Philipa &#8211; such as &#8220;Rethinking education – the new crisis of adult authority in the classroom &#8220;</p>
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