1. The stuff about bloodthirsty Muslims is completely beside the point. Read any history of the crusades. Everyone was at it.

2. The Muslims were highly conscious of a sense of continuity with the Classical world they took over and inhabited. Byzantine craftsmen built and decorated the Dome of the Rock and the Ummayad Mosque in Damascus. The Mu’tazilite philosophers were steeped in Plato and Aristotle. The Ottomans were proud to be the successor s of the Byzantines and protectors of the Constantinople patriarchate. If you go to Morocco today you see people dressed in late Roman costume (that’s why they look like medieval monks), idling the day away, like the Romans, in steam baths … etc etc

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The most persuasive argument I can think of for including Turkey in the EU is to make the ‘outsider’ further away.

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“Damn, I wish the “conservatives” on this side of the Atlantic were so rational and forward-looking. He writes very well, too, unlike the vast bulk of conservative politicians in the States.”

“A recent diary illuminated the need of America to again lead by the force of our example rather than our force of arms. Mr. Johnson seems to have an appreciation for the power of diplomacy. He appears to understand that true leadership requires cooperation rather than coercion, and that caring and common interests build stronger foundations than fear and self-interest can.

America deeply needs not just a new leader, but a new kind of leadership. The tyranny of Cheney and Bush should be held up as an example of how NOT to lead. Bush is small minded, self absorbed and utterly ignorant of how badly his policies have undermined the long term interests of America and our allies.

Mr. Johnson appears to be the opposite of Bush. I hope he has lots of opportunity to exhibit a better kind of leadership than we’ve seen over here under Bush.

The world needs it and deserves it.”

“Whiplash. No other way to describe it: there he was building up a solid case against Turkish entrance to the EU — a case that I wanted to refute, but could find few ways to do so. Then he goes and demolishes it himself, with even more precision than he’d built it up in the first place.

It’s a rhetorical skill that’s all but disappeared in the U.S.: the ability to present the other side’s views as anything other than a strawman. Would that we had a few conservative leaders like that!”

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The EU is the European Union: It is not an alliance of countries bordering the mediterranean, however practicable such an alliance might be.”

How European exactly are Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guiana, Madeira, the Azores, Ceuta, Melilla – all constituent parts of the European Union? Would you allow white, Christian Russia to join? After all, about as large a slice of Turkey lies in Europe as Russia.

Turkey has long been a member of the OSCE and the Council of Europe – not to mention Nato (though it’s hardly on the Atlantic).

And 11 million Turks live in the geographically European bit of Turkey – that’s more than the number of Belgians.

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The main culprits lately appear to be some publically funded services. Although they say they dont have racial and other quotas their “affirmative action” policies disadvantage some groups.

2 recent examples-
Amongst the reasons given for moving scores of prison service jobs from Corby to Leicester are to benefit areas with an ‘ethnically diverse’ workforce with more employment, according to the local Tory Party candidate in the town- Louise Bagshawe.

Tough if you live in Corby, which has for years had unemployment above the national average, and now lose your job! I guess your area is considered too ‘hideously white’

The Police ‘service’ in a certain area recently admitted to racial discrimination by giving every ethnic minority candidate or woman an interview whilst hundreds of suitably qualified white male applications were automatically discounted.

Also, It seems in the Police, you can get the sack for mis-pronouncing the word Shi-ites (as in muslims) as ‘Shitties’, but if you are of Iranian descent and leave messages on a woman’s answerphone threatening to kill her you still get promoted to Chief Superintendent or higher.

Funny old world innit?

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So let Turkey in- then take Britain out, is the answer to that.

I would nt want to spoil it for the French and Germans.

I ve nothing against secular muslims either.

If you want to know who the moderates are i suppose you could try asking what the penalty for apostasy in Islam is /should be.

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This means I think it is wrong to have laws that make it ok for a man to commit adultary, but illegal for a woman to commit the same crime. I think it should be illegal to fire or hire someone, who can do perform their occupation well, simply because of their sex, sexuality, religion, disability etc. Discrimination is not defined as allowing a person to do a job they cannot do, but it is the refusal to allow them to do something they are capable of because of prejudice. Not allowing someone who cannot see to do a job that requires them to see is not discrimination, but refusing to allow them to take a taxi ride because of their condition is, as is assuming that they cannot use a computer or cannot take a degree. Just as it is discrimination to refuse to allow a white, male to take a job he is the most capable for simply because he does not fit into any minority groups.
Futhermore, believing one is morally superior to someone else does not mean that a person believes that the other person is inferior or that they should have inferior rights or that a person who discriminates against them is superior. I know nuns and priests who probably do believe they are morally superior to others, but that does not mean that they believe in laws that discriminate against anyone who has sex before marriage or does not go to Church.

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