Iran

Boris, before the lefty liberals come here and tell you what a silly boy you are and demand you apologise personally to every country you’ve mentioned for offending them, can I just say that you’ve hit the nail on the head as usual.

Boris for PM.

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Boris, very well said. I think that is the most rational argument I have heard yet on the subject. Of course, with the Americans stubbornly refusing diplomatic relations with Iran (thus proving them right, America *does* hate them, clearly.) this may be difficult.

It reminds me very much of a policy from Sec. Stimson in 1945, which I wrote about here. His advice, had it been taken would likely have avoided much of the intensity of the cold war.

Mutually assured destruction is the best force for peace in the modern world.

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Just because they might achieve this by themselves, it doesn’t mean that we should help them to do it.

If your neighbour wanted to cut down a tree in your garden, you don’t help to do it. You’re still going to have a fallen tree.

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Tom? I agree it seems crazy, but there is no might about it. Iran will develop Nuclear weapons. Even worse, Iran and North Korea trade, and then they can share technology. Would we rather create a stronger Nuclear alliance against us, or stretch out a hand and welcome some people to the international community?

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“it is now retrospectively obvious why Saddam Hussein was so foxy and tricksy with the UN weapons inspectors:”

The key word here is “retrospectively “.I have to be honest I think this article is rather silly . Yes Saddaam did look very guilty and that was one of the reasons for the action. According to this logic the guiltier they look the more likely they are not to be.
This does not work looking forward and Conservative carping about the mistake of the war is weak weak weak.They supported it with or without WMDs and rightly so.

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Boris for PM!

(looks like all the blogs are down but Boris)

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I entirely agree with Boris, if only because I’ve been saying exactly this for the past two or three years: if you’ve got nukes, you’re not going to have the US army driving through your streets any day soon. The result will be a reginal balance of power, rather than the present imbalance.

But I don’t see that the Americans should be the ones supplying them, given that it’s the Americans who pose the greatest threat to Iran. No, it has to be Pakistan, or China, or maybe even France.

And with luck, they’ve already taken delivery of a half dozen or so.

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Newmania? So now suspicion alone is enough to authorise military invasion and the killing of civilians? Nonsense. Hans Blix said they didn’t have weapons, we trusted the weapons inspectors until they gave the wrong answer then we went in anyway and thousands of people have died because of it. The war in Iraq is a moral blackhole.

The thing that I hate most about the ‘coallition’ is how utterly morally bankrupt they have become. I detest what has been done in my name and refuse to accept that it was the right thing to do at the time. If anything time has proven that lose of us who were against it at the time were correct, although to be honest, I know of no one who would want to have thousands of children to die brutal deaths just to prove they were right.

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‘even the mullahs are not mad enough to take on a country that could turn their desert into molten glass’ (Boris)

Perhaps not directly but they were happy to pass all those rockets onto Hezbollah. They are happy to spend their oil dollars giving handouts to the victims of the war in Lebanon, buying support for their Hezbollah ‘resistance’.

I think Iran will continue to threaten Israel, now most of the Arab states have stopped threatening them Iran seem to have taken up the fight. It’s a popular policy in the Middle East to promise the destruction of Israel, and Ahmadinejad seems to be a popularist president.

I don’t think its right that Iran get off scot free for what happened to Lebanon either. They were messing directly with European and US interests (i.e. a peaceful and democratic Lebanon) by arming Hezbollah against our will.

There should be sanctions than ban Iran from exporting any weapons whatsoever, and the US should adopt a hardline Israel-type stance against them (i.e. mess with us and we’ll turn your clock back 20 years).

Bush started all this, why is he going soft all of a sudden? He should finish his work in his ‘axis of evil’ or a nuclear ‘axis of evil’ will be his legacy.

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Pete – WMDs were not the reason for the action which was defence.As the consequences of doing nothing are never going to happen we will never know for sure whether it was the right thing to do. I see no special need to have a high minded moral reason to attack a genocidal dictator in the furtherance of our interest and safety. It is certainly tragic that the Iraqui people cannot be dissuaded from killing each other but I think there is a limit to which you can ascribe blame elsewhere.

Speaking of a moral abyss I often listen to the high moral clap trap of the Liberal Party . I find it therefore quite unspeakable that for local gain they have made an alliance with the BNP in Calderdale . I only hope that they will learn that you cannot be a national party and change your position by geography.
I am a committed Conservative but was such a thing to be allowed to happen in our wonderful party I would leave that very day. Time for the National party to react can be allowed but not much . Have they no shame? It seems not .

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There’s another reason the average Iranian might well feel justified in supporting its government in pursuing a nuclear weapon: what on earth gives America (and Britain) the right to go round telling all and sundry who should and shouldn’t have nuclear weapons when THEY’VE QUITE CLEARLY GOT HUNDREDS OF THEM THEMSELVES.

I think the Iranian regime sucks. But the world doesn’t belong to the West, no matter how superior we might be tempted to feel at times.

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WMDs were not the reason for the action which was defence. (newmania)

Defence against what, if not WMDs?

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NewMania, I agree absolutley that I too would leave any party that linked themselves in any way, no matter how local to the BNP.

But for the war in Iraq how did we attack to defend ourself? Sadaam was so demasculated after GW1 and all those sanctions that he couldn’t have launched a credible attack on anyone. It was not defence, it was agression. Sadaam posed us no threat. And clearly the Iraqi people are no better off now anyway, arguably they are worse off. Yes he was an evil bastard, but the same crimes are going on now, more people are dying, and its heading towards being a Muslim nation instead of a secularist one, which it was previously. There was no link between Sadaam’s Iraq and Al-Quaeda, now Iraq is a hive of Al-Quaeda activity. If Sadaam was a threat how come he couldn’t even defend the country?

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As for North Korea, some scientists are saying it looks like they either didn’t test an atom bomb or that they cocked it up.

Their attempts at rocket manufacturing have also proved to be a bit patchy too, so I doubt the US are too worried.

US defence companies such as Lockheed Martin, on the other hand, must be rubbing their hands together at the thought of Japan re-arming. One good reason why the US might want to avoid military intervention.

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“The logic of mutually assured destruction” does not work here, because we are looking at a fanatic Islamic regime that approves of suicide as a means of destroying one’s opponent. If you are headed straight for Paradise, why would you care that your country gets turned into molten glass in the process. You are a holy martyr, a shahid, and your 72 virgins are waiting for you…

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I think you are a very brave man. My best wished to you…

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Hi Boris
You got a mistake here.there is no Qom south in Iran!it is just Qom a religious city in central part of Iran beside the salt desert.I am totaly agree with you but don’t forget that this Malls never think about democracy even they have nukes.but about Israel they are good traders.

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Hi Boris,
Why bomb is good?????
Lets go after any body India, Pakistani, Israel, …, France, UK, USA make then give a way or lets every body have it
It is not fair you have it and make me force Kill my nation why because 1 or 3,000 people die from your nation.
What kind of democratic way killing 650,000 people is good or no problem but dieing of 3,000 people is wow.
(I am sorry for every single life but can be this excuse for killing another nation????)
Ok if bad for every body of not then fuck off.

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“The logic of mutually assured destruction” does not work here, because we are looking at a fanatic Islamic regime that approves of suicide as a means of destroying one’s opponent. (Simone)

Suicide bombing is a tactic, not an ethic.

Japanese kamikaze pilots were the suicide bombers of their time. But Japan itself did not commit suicide.

Iran won’t commit suicide either.

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It seems even Iranians read Boris’ blog.

Perhaps we can do the negotiating here that George W Bush is incapable of doing?

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PETE: Well my reading of it is this. The US after, in effect, suffering another pearl harbour was going to snuff out whatever rogue states in the Middle East they could. Discussions of the UN legality and the effective causus bellum (WMDs) were a pantomime which even down to junior level was not taken at face value. They were gestures at best .The Conservative Party at least were well aware of that as they have since admitted on more than one occasion, . So was Tony Blair

The US is our closest and only meaningful ally, the main strut of international security and the power that has, in the last resort been our friend. We could, of course, behave like France, a legend for amorality in International affairs, and hide behind American power as the guarantor of security, while sulking of in a dream of La Gloire. Or we could support our ally and play an honest part in the real international relationships that defend Liberal democracy.

The key to this, by my reading, is in understanding both of the impact of 9.11 andthe insubstantial ness notions of legality in international relations (International law is a myth !). Servile news coverage mostly played along, focussing on what was ephemeral opinion management.
I also think the lurking knowledge that this is the case is what so riles Liberals and other fantasists. The people they so despise, protect them as they protected Salman Rushdie (who sucks). This is a corpse under their tea table. It gives a rotting savour to the dainty hypocrisies they nibble upon and the querulous fury we hear in the fury of a child who knows he is in the wrong…

Once you throw away the veil (ho ho) it all starts to make more sense. The creation of a free and friendly Iraq was a laudable but secondary motive. We were there as part of our defence strategy in a wide sense and whether or not we could actually find WMDs at that time was not the issue. They would certainly have come. In part, the US was taking advantage of a political window of opportunity to shore up its own security.

This dissonance between the real relationships in the world that are centred around NATO not the UN or the EU is why it is so easy to pick holes in play moralities that crop up . It resolves itself back to “rightness ” in this way If Iraq had been a real sovereign state with real freedom then there would not have been problem in the first place ( With Iraq)

So far so good. Where, in my opinion we have gone wrong is in being tempted to play the major power on the world stage. We are no such thing and therefore have fewer obligations to do our bit. Some time ago we had done more than enough and should have set timetables for withdrawal that were achievable.
Tony Blair would not tell this truth, he played his phoney hand because it’s all he knows .Also he has (like other long serving Prime ministers) come to think of himself as a colossus on the world stage. All of this exaggerates our obligations to the point where we are risking British lives for the sake of “Looking important “. Nothing new there. You might put it this way. He has come to believe his own lies .I would like us out now and we would agree on this at least.

The core of my argument is in these ideas.

1 Continuity of international anarchy regularised only by ad hoc military accords and tribal loyalties
2 The strange language in which this is described for domestic consumption . ( UN baloney)

I would be interested to hear STEVEN L`s view, and also his brief history of business as usual is highly instructive …I think

All of this by the way is why some of the Conservative Party are so furious that in backing the war they have been placed in the position of being liars . Some would have supported the war on the traditional grounds I describe. Not all though, and I believe it would have been a similar story had they been in power. I have only a limited sympathy for the Conservative position. “We would have gone to war for the right reasons”

Now, the young men and women are driving around in death-trap jeeps. They are poorly supported and used as toy soldiers. They should be home and safe as soon as reasonable practicable. They have ,as ever , performed marvellously despite scandalously inadequate equipment .

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Dear Boris,

You were lied to by Blair in Parliament over Iraq, and you knew it, and he assumed that you would make nothing of it, and that was justified. The suggestion that Iran should be given nuclear weapons to avoid the prospect of being made an invasion target by the country that you represent seems to avoid the question of responsibility. Also, Cicero is hardly an authority on the clarity of the distinction between law and civil war, since he managed to aggravate the Roman body politic by ensuring that plotters could be executed without trial if they failed to assemble their legions of veteran soldiery first.

Horace said that for the follies of their princes, the Greeks felt the whip. Perhaps we might better discuss what the member for Henley can achieve, in the one chamber we have left of our Parliament. I am unsure what my government’s policy is on our invasion of Iraq, and on what legal basis our troops remain. Has Parliament relinquished the authority to declare and end wars, essential to democracy? How often must Parliament authorise the occupation? Why has the United Nations not taken over the process of ‘regime change’? What steps has Parliament taken to ensure that it is not misled once more by the government over Bond’s vastly overemphasised intelligence reports? It seems that if the Iranians want to destroy British democracy, they have an ally in the prime minister- and if the Opposition remains as ineffectual as it has, they might be entitled to regard offers by our MPs to give them bombs as being somewhat after the fact. Would it be accurate to observe that the Commons not only includes former terrorists who have been excused the oath to the Crown, but that the most notorious terror attacks on this country have been carried out by bombers shown around Parliament by one of our politicians?

You touch on the subject of mutual assured destruction. Yet modern wars are not fought by states across borders, but by financed insurgency groups, or small cells of fanatics. I have read that the Americans have dismantled their search for bin Laden, his four wives and seventeen sons, though it seems scarcely credible- but in any case, they have scrupulously limited their extra-legal attentions to actual armed al-Qaeda terrorists, or those taking mystery bus tours among them, rather than hunting down sources of terror funding and propaganda in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. All I have learned about the London bombers is that their families didn’t know anything about their activities and resent any enquiries. They are meant to have been indoctrinated somewhere in Pakistan. Suppose they had used more effective methods or weapons and thousands had been killed, or tens of thousands- would mutual assured destruction be relevant then? Will we ever have a Report dealing with the invasion of Iraq and assessing its effectiveness at countering potential terrorist acts, rather than just one which fails to answer the question of Blair’s integrity on intelligence?

Boris, if you are interested, you could start with the issue of Cabinet committees, created for defence as this country emerged from Splendid Isolation and fallen into disuse because they threaten Blairite methods of decision-making without ultimate responsibility. However, it may be that your talents are better suited to the defence of English culture. After the defeat of France in 1940, Saint-Exupery mourned ‘Had France been France, she might have stood to the world as the common ideal round which the world would have rallied.’ The British don’t stand for some awful armed police state presided over by a media control fanatic who uses his own version of the language, and anyone who represents our culture defends us from that.

Best wishes,

‘Anecdota’

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No worries, Boris! We will be making the bomb real soon. Don’t actually need the help of Americans either; you know we don’t want to be indebted to somebody. Just tell Israelis to keep out of the game, so as to avoid getting into a war, or else they will be wiped out of the map some time. We don’t want to make trouble for somebody, just want to protect our own sovereignty, but if Israelis want to get wiped out of the map, we will be happy to do them this favor, as you cannot deprive us forever.

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Very insightful and still surprising from a Westerner. If Iran gets Nuclear weapon it will never use it because it knows well it will be completely gone the minute after. Therefore, there is no real danger from a nuclear Iran. The problem of the U.S. and its allies is not Iranian Atomic bomb or the danger for Israel, they don’t want to loose their current master-slave relations with Arab countries which will be gone by the emergence of a powerful Iran.

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After suffering another Pearl Harbour? Thats incorrect, they suffered an attack from terrorists, not from a country. If Iran attacked America tomorrow, that would be different, but no nation attacked America this time. Are we to punish every Arab for what those ones did on 9/11? If so we’re no better than the terrorists.

Yes, Bush and Blair had decided before using the UN, I agree, but they obviously saw even then that they were in dodgy territory or they would not have looked for just cause via the UN, which came up with the answer they did not want.

The power of the US was not exactly helpful in 1940 when it was punishing any US citizen who came here to help defend freedom by removing their citizenship. Yes they were friends still, but there was no shoulder to shoulder when Hitler was trying to flatten London. They joined the military war when they were attacked. Yes, they made a huge impression on it, but they didn’t come in just to help their buddies. If your best friend chose to kill someone because they were nasty, would you help him dig in the knife?

You hear know ‘fury of a child who knows he is wrong’ from me, on the contrary, I’d not state my case if I didn’t believe it 100%. Yes, Sadaam was evil, but I believe that the west should prove itself better than evil by behaving morally better and treasuring the things we say we do, not by indulging in whatever two faced lies we feel like and devaluing human life. You don’t have to be a fantasist to believe the invasion was wrong, you just have to look at the chaos and the turmoil, you have to look at the suicide bombings, the rape, the murder, the secretarianism, the roll to civil war.

You have yet to name one way Iraq was a threat to our security, you throw your argument in that it was defence strategy and shoring up security, but how? Sadaam was not a threat. Tell me how Iraq was a threat to us, please.

You’re right tho, I agree we should bring them home, right now. Totally agree. But, I can’t see how you can think we should withdraw, yet support going in? Can we just globetrot destabilising countries and then leaving? At any rate, I agree, they should be home, not risking their lives everyday.

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PETE: I am familiar of course with the point of view you express and have dealt with the points you raise ( I think )or at least intended to.I think your opinion is naieve and overly concerned with being “good” .I am chiefly concerned with the safety of this country , its interests and relatively unconcerned about being morally better than this or that regime . Generally moral equivalence is misused by the other side ( on this) I feel .

Sorry I didn`t mean to be rude I was on a mental soap box and got a bit carried away ….About half way through I seem to have morphed into Young Winston.I laughed when I read it back…..when will I learn

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I think,you don’t know mollas.
If they achieve nuclear power, it will be the beginning of a new story. Cold war against Israel is the only excuse that help them to govern to Iranian people. So they don’t lose it even you grant them advantages.
Iranian people have a proverb. we say they are like a cat, when you threw them up, They come done to the ground on their feet very calmly.
You need a mola against a mola to win, find that mola.

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Good,Boris
I am an iranian medical doctor and in political issue,I am opposed to my goverment.I belive west
democracy as my ideal regim
but I am nationalist and completely accept your opinion about our(iranian)
nuclear program although we are peaceable people and don\\\’t like to have atomic bomb.However I thank for your justly idea and I wish that you be elected as britain first minister as soon.
Be successful

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NewMania, worry not, you weren’t rude, or at least, I didn’t pick up on it if you were. Apologies likewise if I was.

I understand your point about Morals, it leads back to arguments such as that over Dresden. However, I still just can’t see Iraq as a threat to us.

Anyway, have you seen Young Winston? With Micheal York? Not a bad movie.

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BJ, who’d have thought you had such an Iranian following? If we find out you have a Ppongyang based branch of your fan club too, surely you’ll have to be PM.

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The creation of a free and friendly Iraq was a laudable but secondary motive. We were there as part of our defence strategy in a wide sense and whether or not we could actually find WMDs at that time was not the issue. They would certainly have come. In part, the US was taking advantage of a political window of opportunity to shore up its own security. (newmania)

Once Al Qaeda, WMDs, spreading democracy, and all the rest has been disposed of, the invocation of “defence strategy in a wide sense” and “window of opportunity to shore up its own security” sounds to me like a slightly coded way of saying “securing control of vital Middle East oil reserves”.

Why not just say this? Why beat about the bush? Why not call a spade a spade?

My question is: did they succeed in this primary geopolitical goal? As best I can make out, they didn’t even manage to do that.

they don’t want to loose their current master-slave relations with Arab countries (Arj Tuba)

Quite so. But it appears they are losing it anyway. And what will be the consequences of that?

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You need a mola against a mola to win, find that mola (alireza)

I suspect these ‘molas’ must be the Islamic clerics that us poor dumb Westerners call ‘mullahs’.

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Well said Borris
I wish all British politicians could be as liberal as you are .
You are right we ( Persian people ) see our politicians as traitors if they don’t do any thing possible to protect our sovereignty.

Well done Borris

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Fantastic robust argument .

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Dear Boris,

You are Right, that’s the only and real solution, I think world should think about it very seriously before making any unrealistic judgment.

Wish you good luck,

Nick

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Hi Boris
there is a solution in there. iranian regim proud of themselves to challange big powers. to move them back from their postion and see their humiliation, and how fearfull they are start with United Emarat.3 island in Persian Gold. 1-Emarate should claim back those islands.2-US should support his alias (UE).3- US set nuke missles in UE, pointed to Qum city in iran, if iran wanted to attack Emarat.
4- all this should happen to support UE, not in the context of argues beween US and Iran.
Iran regim will fear of UE claim, because they don’t want put themselves down in front of Iranian nation.

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Boris, I’m Iranian, and I think if Iran spends its money and energy on infrastructures of the country, it would be a “real” and “better” powerful Iran than if spending them on making atomic bombs, as you think. However, your argument seems logical and interesting as an Englishman, certainly it’s towards the benefits of UK, not the people of Iran, who are the “real Iran”.

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Now that we seem to have briefly opened up a direct line of communication with our Persian brothers and sisters, perhaps we might ask them what us Brits should do in the parlous present state of affairs:

1) Not worry too much?

2) Stock up on good single malt whisky?

3) Convert to Islam, and all start wearing burqas? Men too.

4) Dig ourselves graves, and throw ourselves into them, and hope that we will subsequently Rapturously arise from them?

5) Try a bit harder to get the white ball near the baulk cushion when playing snooker safety shots? …and remember Paul Hunter.

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Well,
We don’t agree with Nuclear weapons but in an unequal world of western powers against middle eastern countries what we can do, what can we do?
We never suffer dictation of their programs to control the world for their own.

An Iranian Student

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As an Iranian I still don’t believe that Iranian government is looking for nuclear bomb at all. Why should they? Have a look at the Persian or IRAN histories have they ever sought war?
I am quite sure you will see the answer as “NO”. We always seek peace for the whole world.

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Mehdi, you’re hilarious! Do post again.

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What’s hilarious about that, apart from the perfect English?

Sounds to me like a pure Iranian sentiment.

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Hi Boris,
as an iranian I think
America will give us the Atomic bomb,finally,
and then, our desert will turn into molten gravel,rapidly.

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Speaking purely in my capacity as a very senior Islamic cleric, with dreams of a future Caliphate that extends all the way to Glasgow, I generally tend to find myself agreeing with Future Sultan Boris’ intriguing suggestion.

Although I will agree that Glasgow will be almost certainly be a bit of a tough nut to crack, Muslim-wise…

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Hi Boris,
As an Iranian, I think the best way to protect a country against the foreign threats is formation of democracy there. The regime without A-bomb is trampling the certain civil rights of people; suppose what will happen when they acquire to nuke weapons!

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Dear Mr. Boris,

I am not sure if what you said today was for the sake of your liberal thoughts toward a country like mine, or for the sake of your own….you know all the stories on Britain and Iran all through history , and I am definitely not a political analyst. Yet, as an Iranian who is learning not to stress on being one, but rather being a universal human (and I believe everyone must begin to think that way and see the right and wrong , not in a certain nationality but in what we all are), I think as much as my country has the right to claim nuclear power, it might be dangerous , since the rulers are not to be trusted….that is the paradox here which makes me understand the world’s concern, but no administration has the slightest right to consider itself as the lord of all others and dictate policies, rights, etc.

And one little comment for dear Indlex : The Iranian women do not wear BORGA, you should probably visit there soon to have a better understanding of people’s ways there, also another commenter has stated that when mollas die, they will expect 72 virgins!!??? Please take the time and study a bit more on Islam if you care to commnent as there is no such words in Muslims’ book,I assure you have been greately misinformed!

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Hi Boris,
As an Iranian, I think that your idea has fair enough for both sides. However, I should mention again that we don’t care about nuclear weapons! Who dares to use it these days? Supposedly we have it, do you think that Iran can use it? USA and others will flat Iran with a good excuse! I’m totally against to have any nuclear weapon for all the countries included USA! But we have to have our independency to western countries in all the aspects such as nuclear energy.
And one more for people who madly love war! I think before making any war with others it’s good to think about them and respect others idea. As far as western countries think that they are the LORD of the world, other countries such as Iran, North Korea, will try to break this point of view.
It’s good to see that still there are some realistic persons in your country to stop idealistic mistakes!

K.

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Dear Boris
Please cut the crab and take Iranian oil and let them live! Stupid Ahmadinejad and dictator Saddam came to power indirectly by the west. Forget about the economical losses, hundred of thousands of Iranians have suffered under torture of Shah and stupidity of mullahs after overthrow of Dr. Mosaddegh and revolution of 1979. Any movement at any nuclear sites or military bases in Iran could be seen by the USA’s satillites and whole Iran could be nuked to ashes.
Please stop the game and take only their oil not their lives.

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Thinking about local (national) economy before thinking of its direct effect on extreme polarization of world, about local cultural enrichment before thinking to fill the extreme gap of ilitracy in the world which prevents a real dialogue between nations, and let me say sending solidiers to resolve the problems before social workers, before responding to questions. Boris I want to add a mixture of egoistic relativism from one side and militaristic incomprehension from the other side has ruined our world. There is no idea of a politicosphere, i.e. any political action in one part of the world has its practical consequence in the other extrem of the world. Iran is suffering from many things but not surly from lack of atomic bom.

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Thanks to Reza!

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THE WESR SHOULD NOT BE WORRIED. THE TARGET IS IRAN ITSELF.

As an Iranian, I think the western world should not be worried about Iran’s acquiring nuclear weapon. In my view, the main victims of such a policy and the primary target of any potential use of the bomb will be the Iranians themselves. As cynical as it might read, in my opinion the Molas’s objective is above all achieving a strong deterrent against the democratic aspirations of Millions of Iranians inside as well as the large Diasporas to change the theocratic and totalitarian regime any time soon. The western world should not be worried at all. The Molas are actually smart enough to make deals with any government (even US and Israel) around the world not to disturb their pleasure of their ruthless rule. The number of political prisoners inside Iran’s prisons, students killed on daily basis in demonstrations against the regime and the chain persecution of the opposition is the best illustrator of the wicked plan in their minds to even more strengthen their grip over the country and smother the voices crying for freedom. The target is only Iran. Don’t worry!

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Interestingly, nobody seems to have a problem with Egypt re-starting its nuclear program. The US has even vowed to support it. Strange, given the Egyptian links to the whole anti-American movement.

What happened to the idea of a “democratic” Middle East? Egypt doesn’t quite count as a democratic government despite the move in 2005 to have more than one candidate for president (CIA, World Factbook). Perhaps it has something to do with Egypt’s resources (“petroleum, natural gas, iron ore, phosphates, manganese, limestone, gypsum, talc, asbestos, lead, zinc”) and geography (“controls Sinai Peninsula, only land bridge between Africa and remainder of Eastern Hemisphere; controls Suez Canal, a sea link between Indian Ocean and Mediterranean Sea”) (CIA, World Factbook). Or perhaps it is as simple as the Mubaraks (father and son) being seen as “Pro-western” (CRS, 2001) and of “assistance” in the U.S. “war on terrorism.”

Which is the least they can do, given that Egypt has supplied some of the most prominent leaders of the terrorist movement.

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confirm Reza.

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More background on the Egyptian issue here.

With at least 80 million inhabitants, Egypt is not only the most populous nation in the Arab world but in many ways its intellectual and political nexus, the fount from which nearly every major political or religious force to spread through the region in the past century has emerged. And while much has been made since September 11 of the danger posed by such Muslim fundamentalist trends as the Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia, it has been the much broader fundamentalist trends first fostered in Egypt, with their specifically anti-Western tilt, that have probably most fanned the flames of jihad throughout the region.

The pattern is unmistakable, should one bother to look. The Gama’a al-Islamiyya, a social movement espousing a rejection of Western values and a return to Islamic traditions, originated in Egypt in the 1970s before spreading throughout the Middle East. Islamic Jihad also has its roots in Egypt. Osama bin Laden was a disgruntled Saudi rich kid bankrolling Resistance fighters in Afghanistan until he came under the sway of his Egyptian spiritual mentor, Ayman al-Zawahiri, and decided to go global; for that matter, 4 or 5 of the 10 original founders of al-Qaeda were Egyptian. Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahman, one of the masterminds behind the first World Trade Center bombing? Egyptian. Mohammed Atta, the ringleader of 9/11? Egyptian. Wherever one turns in the arena of Islamic jihadists, one is likely to find either the direct or spiritual influence of an Egyptian.

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Hejj
I am Iranina and I would assure that you dont know the Iranian goverment at all. They are ready to kill Iranian people to sruvive more. Then you want them to have Atomic Bomb and keem it in the Shelf. It is not possible the first one that they acquire they will fall out in one of these city, New York, London and Telaviv

ja, buddy

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idlex said:

Now that we seem to have briefly opened up a direct line of communication with our Persian brothers and sisters, perhaps we might ask them what us Brits should do in the parlous present state of affairs:

1) Not worry too much?

2) Stock up on good single malt whisky?

3) Convert to Islam, and all start wearing burqas? Men too.

4) Dig ourselves graves, and throw ourselves into them, and hope that we will subsequently Rapturously arise from them?

5) Try a bit harder to get the white ball near the baulk cushion when playing snooker safety shots? …and remember Paul Hunter.
_______________
To idlex : First of all I don’t think you know Iran at all.

To answer your questions:

1st Question: It is up to you to be worried about what Iran may or may not do, but I would worry more about what this (UK) Government will do with our lives.

2nd Question: I don’t think you need a reason to drink Whiskey, as a brit you are very good at drinking.

3rd Question: Convert to Islam? You don’t have to. For your info: In Iran there are other religions (Christian and Jews and Zaratostrian ) living with Muslims in peace. I would say there is less religion racism in Iran than UK. Women don’t wear veil/burga. They only cover their hair and I can say %70 of them only do it as it against the law to walk out of the house without head scarf and they will be like European countries when they are inside their house or in parties. No VEIL for Iranian. It is something for Arab tribes.

4th Question: You don’t have to dig your grave. Tony will do it for you. He has already started.

As an Iranian, I am totally against the government on the power in Iran but like every other Iranian I don’t like other countries tell me what I can and what I can’t have.

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I think Iran will have the access to atomic energy in a near future.
Yes that is right and USA can not do anything. The war can not be a solution too.

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I am irainian. I am agree with you. We are interested in nuclear weapons because The US an UK and Israeil governments threat us. We are not crazy.. we can produce nuclear weapon without US help. We have the best young scients that can produce. We dont want to kill US or UK or ISRAEIL people. you must accept that they want to kill IRAINIAN peaple such as palestine,Iraq,Afghanistan,Lebonan people. And we MUST defend our country not any more. We dont want to attack any country. We love our government, leader, president Ahmadinejad. WE WANT NUCLEAR WEAPON. I LOVE YOU BORIS

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have you ever seen an iranian terrorist? suicide bomber ? or …..?
iranian regim wants this power for protection against usa , not for terror.

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To those who are still snarling against my Country IRAN
It seems you are still missing the point . Remember what Boris said : The Iranians will join in soon enough and the threats are known to be bogus

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“In Iran there are other religions (Christian and Jews and Zaratostrian ) living with Muslims in peace”

Sara, I hate to disagree on this point but…

Islam is the official religion in Iran, and all laws and regulations must be consistent with the official interpretation of sharia law. Whereas the deterioration of religious freedom for Christians started with the victory of conservative parties at the beginning of 2004, a new wave of persecution of Christians followed the election of a hard-line conservative president in June 2005, bringing the country to position number 3 in the World Watch List. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad hailed his election triumph as a new Islamic revolution that could spread throughout the world and pledged to restore an ”Islamic government” in Iran, implying that the previous administrations were not sufficiently Islamic. Since 2005’s election, many Christians have not only been rounded up for harassment, but many have been arrested and beaten. One house church pastor was killed in November. Ethnic Christians are still allowed to express their faith within their own church walls, but those who come from a Muslim background face tremendous risk because the government wants them to return to Islam. Allegedly, local authorities throughout the nation have been given the order to crack down on all Christian cell groups. Because the churches are forbidden to assist any Muslim background believers, many ethnic churches removed their support from their brothers and sisters of Muslim origin. The new policy threatens evangelism and discipleship efforts. Muslim background believer cell groups are now meeting in secret.

It hardly seems liek religious freedom and it is far from the absolute freedom which Muslims in this country are granted.

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Brandon morawaska said:
Have you ever seen an Iranian terrorist? Suicide bomber? Or…..?
Absolutely true. You got the point.
But I am quite confident that most people have seen Saudi terrorists (Bin Laden ) , Pakistani terrorists (Khan) , Egyptian terrorist ( Mohammad atta and zawaheri ) , Jordanian terrorist ( zarqawi ) . And who can deny British alliance with Saudi Arabia, Pakistan , Jordan and Egypt.

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Hi Boris,
There is only one thing wrong with what you’re suggesting; The Iranian people have no desire for ANY nuclear technology. This goes for either peaceful means or in the form of a bomb! If you had been a MP representing Qom, you would have been arguing the urgent needs of your constituency such as proper schooling, health care, unemployment, and above all, a free and democratic society! These are the urgent needs of the people of Iran and NOT nuclear power stations. Iran has a wealth of oil and gas to take us all through for another 150 years, not to mention other resources which have not yet been discovered!
The problem with having the bomb is who has his finger on the button? Parviz Mosharaf is a different politician to Ahmadinejad. A leader who awaits the resurrection of the 12th Imam from the bottom of a well, can not poses a stable mind and hence could wage his 12th Imam’s war on the rest of the world!

The general US and UK foreign policies during the last 18 years are to be blamed for such problems.
The UK has egged on the mullahs for the past 28 years and now I’m afraid is payback time! Just as did the US with Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan against the Russians and later paid the price.
You modern British politicians truly amaze me! Why don’t you learn from the master of your politicians i.e. Sir Winston Churchill and foresee what’s coming rather than make a quick fix for what you have brought?
When are the modern British politicians going to learn that religion is EVIL! It does NOT work any more! It’s sell by date is passed due! It backfires and it bites back where used to manipulate nations! Look at Bin Laden, Ahmadi Nejad, Nasrollah, Moghtada Sadr…….
Weigh up the costs of installing these people and their regimes against the gains!
For goodness sake, you are British and supposed to have a sound economic mind!
The Human lives’ cost alone outweighs the hard cash lost out of your national income!
Take my word for it. Iran needs help to establish its long due democracy. Get behind the people of Iran and help overthrow the evil Islamic regime and the world will be your oyster!
Please take note of the following and learn a thing or two:
How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.
– Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 [London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899]).

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Dear Pete
I believe your comments about religious discriminations in Iran are based on Western Media propaganda (Baseless).
I would like to draw your attention to these facts:
1. Iran has the second largest Jewish population in the Middle East (Israel First)
2. The oldest Iranian church was founded in Iran in 60AD which is still respected in Iran
3. Jewish, Christian and Zoroastrian Iranians have their own representatives in Iran Parliament.
4. Religious minorities Students are not obliged to attend the Islamic Lectures in universities while others are.
5. There is no Sharia Law in Iran. Iran is a shiet country with Islamic laws and not necessarily Sharia Law.

If you need some more facts just drop a line

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Boris ! I can just say “Shame On you” . I’m an iranian journalist that live in IRAN and you don’t know what a silly man you are !

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im iranian and i live in tehran . i have [Ed deletion]

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Dariosh said:
October 13, 2006 11:48 AM | permalink
The Iranian people have no desire for ANY nuclear technology
——————
RUBISHHHHHHHHH , darioush look around yourself and keep your Ignorant idiotic comments for yourself.

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To Pete:

Pete

I do agree with you. I was born in a Muslim family but I don’t consider myself a Muslim. I chose not to have any religion bcuz I think all our problems come from religion. But when wrong things is being said about Islam I like to correct it.

When I said all the religions are leaving in peace in Iran I mean individuals. Yes Ahmadi Nejad’s government must be one of the worst one in Power after the revolution and there are still so many stupid hard liner religious people in Iran who doesn’t like other religion but all together still people with different religions live in Iran and consider them selves Iranian first them Jew, Muslim, Christian and … .

All the religions in Iran have their own school, government funded. During religious occasions like Christmas, there are program’s specially on Iran’s TV. According to BBC ” Although Iran and Israel are bitter enemies, few know that Iran is home to the largest number of Jews anywhere in the Middle East outside Israel.
About 25,000 Jews live in Iran and most are determined to remain no matter what the pressures – as proud of their Iranian culture as of their Jewish roots.
It is dawn in the Yusufabad synagogue in Tehran and Iranian Jews bring out the Torah and read the ancient text before making their way to work. and they have been allowed to go to Israel freely in the past 5 years.”
It is the same in every other country in Middle east. All the religions came from this area, remember?
But if you think there is no discrimination about religion in UK, you go it wrong. I have seen a lot of it. The biggest one is people see any terrorist action as every single Muslim faults.

Do you remember not so long ago people in a plane asked to Pakistanis to get out of the plan cuz they looked like terrorist?

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as a iranian in iran, would someone belived in 1977 that in 2 years time SHAH and his great glorys will be fade away, remember islamic republic of iran is the most clever goverment ruling, they are too strict about everything but they change it all the time just for the favor of governing, like it or not this is the goverment of iran for all our lifetimes, so my point is you will never know what they gonna do since we all forgetten the mastermind of this. I promiss iran will act in a way that no one would ever belived it. you are right we are far to further than what we saying to the world. they have it and they might prove it soon.

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How fascinating, I never knew that the Axis of Evil was so well represented on Boris’s blog.

Some interesting comments:

‘have you ever seen an iranian terrorist?’ (brandon morawaska)

Iran arm Hezbollah and shi’ite militants in Iraq. Iran is a sponsor of terror and should be ashamed of itself!

‘Iran has the second largest Jewish population in the Middle East (Israel First)’ (Hamed)

Only because all the Arab nations exiled their Jewish populations after they lost the 1948 war (which Iran, under the leadership of the Shah didn’t join in).

—

Personally, I think if we are going to have a nuclear Iran, then we shouldn’t allow the Russians and Chinese to have a monopoly over conventional arms sales to her.

The Saudi’s were worried enough to buy 72 Eurofighter Typoons off us, so Iran must be posing some threat to the dominant tribal leadership on the Arabian peninsular.

Now that the Russians have annouced there will be no state funding for the MiG company until they come up with something worthwhile, a 5th Generation Russian fighter plane looks unlikely for quite some time.

The UK should get in there and flog the Ayatollah some Typhoons before the dastardly French slime their way into Teheran with their Rafael.

This should put the s**ts up the Saudi’s and the Israelis some more and then they’ll need some more weapons off us too.

—

Once more thing, back on March 2nd (see archives) Boris informed us that:

‘If the Government decided to build a nuclear reactor today, there are only half a dozen people who have the experience to do it in this country, and they have all retired.’

So it seems there is a worthwhile trade to be done with the Axis of Evil. They supply us with civil and military nuclear technologies, we supply 4.5 and eventually 5th generation fighter jets to the Mullahs.

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As a Zoroastrian, I should say that Iran is my country and I feel Iranian more than any thing and do not need any defense of my religious rights with the aim of undermining the dignity and criticism of my Muslim fellowmen.

Our president just like yours loses sense while speaking sometimes. But it does not mean that we can deny the most clear historical facts about Iranians having set the Jewish people free from slavery and serfdom in Babylon and offered them shelter and home in Iran. The fact that you might not have been born yet at the time of Israeli- Iranian friendship and alliance before the revolution won’t erase the reality from the face of the history.
I think we should respect the great traditional Persian spirit of religious tolerance and support for diversity put in place by the great Persian Kings and be patient for this unpleasant period of Iranian history to come to its due end. Never forget that Iran is a country with great history and that 27 years of Mullah regime is nothing in comparison with more than 2500 years of just rule in the Persian empire.

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Well! Boris

You made a very reasonable discussion. Personally I think the problem of nuclear proliferation have only two outcomes. Either all the countries reach a state to produce nuclear weapons or all the countries would be disarmed in this regard. The second option does not seem to happen since US and Israel never give up their unique “source of superiority” to other nations. Exaggerated concentration on Iranian nuclear power issue would allow other countries to go ahead in this way under the shadow of media focusing on Iran and North Korea. So even if negotiation with Iran and N. Korea reach a reasonable result for both parties, we will certainly have more countries trying to reach nuclear technology and the next step would be negotiating with 8-10 countries. The human nature cannot accept discrimination and the only question that is proposed by any human kind in countries without nuclear facilities is that “Why US (the only nation ever used nuclear weapon against other nation), UK, France, Russia, China, Israel,…” can have this technology but we cannot?”. Whenever western countries find an appropriate response for this, we might seek a solution for the whole problem.
Thanks again

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I think Boris is unfortunately right about the best way to prevent somebody invading your country on the excuse of you having WMDs is for you to actually have some.

For my text on that i would take the earlier example of Yugoslavia. In the 18790s Tito deliberately decided not to aquire the Bomb because it would make the whole NATO/Waesaw Pact fight even more unstable. I doubt if anybody would believe we would have started “recognising” Bosnia, Croatia or even Slovenia in direct defiance of our undertakings at Helsinke, if they had been part of a nuclear armed state.

So long as we oppose the principles of international law all that is left is force.

That this makes the world a much more dangerous place is not more the responsibility of the governments of Iran & Yugoslavia than of the US & UK.

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‘Our president just like yours loses sense while speaking sometimes’ (Anahita)

Our Zoroastrian friend does have a valid point about his Blairship here. However I would point out to you guys from the Axis of Evil that we at least get a chance to vote our lunatic ‘president’ and his cohorts out sometime before May 2010 though.

When are the Ayatollahs going to give you guys the opportunity to have a vote on whether or not you want to live by their mediaeval interpretation of justice?

In fact didn’t they have Ayatollah Mohammad Kazemeini Borojerdi arrested the other day for expressing an opinion about the separation of church and state?

Then they keep trying to tell us that Islam is the religion of peace and tolerance? Yeah, right, peace on the condition you do whatever they tell you and tolerance providing you don’t dispute a word of it.

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Hi Boris,

As an Iranian Ph.D. student I entirely agree with you. For those who oppose you, I just want to mention something. Iranians do not like another war since they suffered for 8 years from an unwanted invasion by Saddam while supporting by the western countries.
But for God sake and just for a moment see how the western countries threaten my country. We just want our position in the world. I’m pretty sure that most of you know the history of Persia and their contribution to the progress of science in the world. Many of you guys have Iranian friends. How many well educated and successful Iranian doctors, engineers, lawyers, businessmen, researchers and scientists do you know? Let me tell you the answer. There are millions of them all around the world. So do you guys think Iranians let the western countries to exploit them? Definitely not. Today or tomorrow, we’ll progress and build our country. We are a peaceful nation and we don’t like to attack any countries in the world. But, please read the following news by the Joe Matyas from the London Press and ask yourself or your politicians why they store that much nuclear weapon. If you find the answer, then talk about a sanction against my country because of using nuclear technology for civilian purposes and electricity generation.
“The former chair of the United Nations disarmament committee states there are more than 16,000 strategic and tactical nuclear weapons ready for deployment and another 14,000 in storage. The U.S. has nearly 7,000 ready for action and 3,000 in storage and Russia has about 8,500 on hand and 11,000 in storage, he said. China has 400 nuclear weapons, France 350, Britain 200, Israel 200, India 95 and Pakistan 50.”

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The clearest, most refreshing view on this debate so far.

It’s time for us to stop sticking our nose into other people’s business and start getting our own house in order first.

And as for the whereabouts of James Bond? He returns next month, sadly his gaze appears to be focussed on baccarat in French casinos rather than an impending nuclear war. Maybe 007 knows something we don’t.

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STEVE “How fascinating, I never knew that the Axis of Evil was so well represented on Boris’s blog”

Yes indeed , and do you remember when the long winded thingy got all cross with me and I decided discretion was the better part of valour.
As I said . I can be found. I live 400 yds away from where , two years ago a stache of arms was located.They are near my house with their banners , they shout their hate outside TESCOS. You do have to be careful. I had a similar problem with the BNP who threatened to track me down.

They are all tainted by association and one is not to know which one is which . In London this is a real problem and will remain so until Westernised symathisers distance themselves from murderers.

Thus far the British Muslim Coucil have not.

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I think this must be one of the most astonishing threads ever on Boris’ blog.

Boris floats an interesting idea about Iran, and within minutes a whole bunch of Iranians are responding to it. And what diverse opinions they have. And none seem to be we-hate-your-freedom Islamic fundamentalists.

Such is the power of the internet. This discussion would have been impossible 10 or 15 years ago.

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It’s riveting isn’t it Idlex.

Don’t be fooled though, they can be nice when they want to be, but when you want a refund for the fake fags that came out of their vending machine they can be very rude people.

I for one will never by my cigarettes in an Iranian shop, pub or restaurant again.

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idlex, computer and internet have and will change the world around. I believe soon all nations become one. yet, who knows what radicals of everyside of this world would do. prediction: WWIII. may god bring peace.

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Dear readers, I do not agree with Boris’s idea however it does make sense. I am an Iranian myself, an Iranian who does not agree with most of the governments policies, but there is indeed a sense of American abhorrence in my heart. They talk about bringing democracy to the region not recalling the time when they fully supported the monarchy and abandoned the country when a popular revolution occurred. Iran is now a democratic country in its own sense although we do recognize the deficiencies but it is just a matter of time. The west brags about the absence of human rights in this nation but they fail to reflect to countries such a Saudi Arabia wherein the human rights case is even more severe. Well, why should they?! They are the west’s ally after all. So lets face it, for the west, it is not the matter of crafting democracies and monitoring human right violations. It’s creating alliances.
How dare you talk about nuclear weapons when you yourselves have a complete arsenal of WMD. Have the Americans forgotten about Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
When was the last time Iran committed an aggression? When was the last time Iran started a war with another nation? When was the last time an Iranian held a suicide attack? Who armed Iraq’s regime during the 8 year war?
WE IRANIANS DON’T NEED NUCLEAR WEAPONS, but if the threat would not stop and mutual respect would not rule the region nothing and nobody could stop us.

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i forgot to mension all i said was a personal view of the situation. and of course all your ideas all well respected

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It looks like most of our Iranian friends aren’t really up for regime change, no point in starting another disaster by invading them then.

It might help their case if they apologised for taking those US embassy staff hostage after the revolution. I don’t think the US has ever forgiven them for that violation of international diplomatic accord.

Instead their government scream on about ‘the arrogant powers’ and ‘the Zionist regime’ whilst arming nutcase movements like Hezbollah.

Perhaps they could make some sort of a deal whereby the apologise for the US embassy saga and the US take them out of the ‘Axis of Evil’.

Once they agree to stop imprisoning political prisoners, arming terrorists and stoning people then perhaps they can be declassified as an ‘Outpost of Tyranny’ aswell.

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Steven, I think you are quite confused in your view of the world around you. You should take a clear stand whether you see the Iranian regime a democratically elected one or a dictatorship. In case of deciding for the latter, we cannot blame all the misdoings of the regime on the Iranian people as their politicians are not elected by them. Please stop mixing “Iranians” and the “regime” in your arguments. It might also be that you have had some personal problem with some Iranian individual. In this case I suggest that you speak with him/her in person to clear your mind instead of trying to take revenge in this forum.

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‘Please stop mixing “Iranians” and the “regime” in your arguments.’ (Anahita)

I take your point. So I’ll re-iterate. The Iranian regime should start by publicly apologising for the US embassy hostage crisis. That would be a good start in any negotiations, it would demonstrate good faith.

The British have been very good to the ‘Iranian people’. We’ve allowed many thousands of you to make your homes and start your businesses here, have given many of you social housing, welfare, protected your human rights as we do our own, provided free healthcare and free education to your children and provided a healthy, safe environment for you to bring up your families or persue whatever interests you in life.

Would I get all of that if I moved to Iran?

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Hi everyboday,
First of all, Pete, with all respect to Arabs, we are not an Arabic nation. You can call us an Islamic nation, but not an Arabic one.

Well, Boris, more than 50 years ago when our beloved late Dr. Mosaddeq nationalized our oil, which should have been done even earlier than that, the government of your country called Iran a threat to the UK security. In his defence, Dr. Mosaddeq mentioned something very important which I supposed must be considered right now as well. The bottomline of what he said was: “Can you spot even a single Iranian gunboat in the Thames River? How about UK Navy in Persian Gulf?” Ok, now who is the threat to the other’s security? Where is the US? Where is Iran? If Iran were as close as Canada, Mexico or even Chile to the US, then security concerns would be justified. Yes, US is threatening Iran security by being in the region. I do not care who rules Iran, but I know that Iran has never attacked any other country since more than 200 years ago. No one seems to care, because there should be this childish game: I define some allies and some enemies everywhere, so that I have enough excuses to poke my nose whenever I want to. US and UK are respected and welcome as long as they respect us, as long as they stand in the line just like the next country and politely ask for our oil.

I am sure that if Mosaddeq were alive, he would defend our right again in this case. Iran never was and never will be a slave of West. If West understands it, major problems will be solved. US and UK overthrew Mosaddeq through that infamous coup, what do you expect now? A red carpet for another coup?

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ALIREZA SAID-
. How many well educated and successful Iranian doctors, engineers, lawyers, businessmen, researchers and scientists do you know? Let me tell you the answer. There are millions of them”

………Leaving Iran to come and live in the free West; well quite . It must be difficult to have nothing to be proud of but I feel we have handed out enough therapy to privileged guilt consciences . What are any of these people actually doing to help their own country I wonder . Coming here to become or practice Law and medicine does not count. There is room for differences of opinion here and one opinion is that the middles class of the Middle east have been conspicuously ready to leave the country they claim to care about .

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“Can you spot even a single Iranian gunboat in the Thames River? How about UK Navy in Persian Gulf?” Ok, now who is the threat to the other’s security? Where is the US? Where is Iran?”

The Liberal democracies are able to defend themselves , yes. The people living under fascist theocratic dictatorships are not. You make an equivalence ha does not exist . A liberal might pat your head and say of course you must have your insnane society .I do not and the fact that Westernised emigres remember the old country the as all emigres do is irrelevant.

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STEVEN L SAID-Would I get all of that if I moved to Iran?

Tricky one but after much thought and serious contemplation I have to say probably ….no.

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steve l , seems you are an american more than iranian cos you think what g.bush thinks hizbollah is not terrorist but israel is (look at the 3 last days of lebanon war they dropped loads of granade bombs that is killing childeren days , months and even years after the war) you like it or not great IRAN is still great with shah or mullahs or enybodyels and you ,israel or usa cant do nothing about it and IRAN is the power of the region with all those enemies who are against it

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“enybodyels and you ,israel or usa cant do nothing about it and IRAN is the power of the region with all those enemies who are against it”

Well I`m glad we cleared that up then.

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I am an Iranian who lives in Iran, and I studied the entire history of Iran’s and America’s history. what i noticed was a huge misundrestanding between iran and usa (even befor islamic revolution) i mean after the terror of kenedy established. 8 years war and 28 years of being in sanctions isn’t something that we forgive any europian and north american country.as an iranian we achieve our goals when we kick americans out of persian gulf and control the entire middle east. no matter if you help us to achieve our goals or go against it , it is something that we will make it in less the 14 years. trust me what iranians want has nothing to do with going against western’s security. anyways i appreciate you’r comment boris but we are in a bad unwanted game. i still cant wait to see this game endup peacefuly in both sides benefit.

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Does tooth fairy exist?
Come on we cant take it from the kids.
This is a kid’s world and nobody really likes to believe the truth.
You are either very wise or very bold Boris.

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The Iranian regime should start by publicly apologising for the US embassy hostage crisis. That would be a good start in any negotiations, it would demonstrate good faith. (Steven_L)

Oh, tosh. The hostage crisis brought down the Carter administration. Ronald Reagan did a deal with Iran to make sure they weren’t released until Carter lost the election. If anything, Republicans should be thanking Iran for bringing down a Democratic president. None of the hostages died. Heck, they weren’t even tortured.

And why has Iran got to show ‘good faith’? They’re no threat to the USA, which has been conducting war games against Iran all year, openly discussing bombing options. If anything, America ought to do something to demonstrate its good faith to the Iranian people.

It’s not that Iran is a threat to the USA, but that the USA is a threat to Iran. This is the whole basis of Boris’ essay.

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fascist theocratic dictatorships (newmania)

‘Fascist’ doesn’t mean anything in this context.

In fact, it seldom does in any context. It’s just another word for ‘nasty’.

You’ve just been listening to George Bush again. Much like Steven…

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What I would like to ask our Iranian friends is this: why are Sunnis and Shias killing each other in Iraq?

They didn’t used to do this. At least not in Saddam’s time.

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Dear Idlex,

I guess you’d better ask this question from British and American soldiers who invade Iraq. I have a question to ask from them as well. Why there is no country whose name is Iraq, Emirates, Bahrain, Kwait, and Quatar when you see the world’s map before 1930.

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guess you’d better ask this question from British and American soldiers who invade Iraq. (Alireza)

I am perfectly well aware that the invasion of Iraq began with any number of lies by both the British and American governments – Saddam’s non-existent Weapons of Mass Destruction, links with Al Qaeda, the fake ‘War on Terror’, ‘bringing democracy’, etc.

I’m also aware that the conduct of the invading forces has been frequently utterly despicable – Random shootings. Abu Ghraib. Fallujah. Guantanamo bay. Little or no attempt at reconstruction or democratisation.

This isn’t for the most part the soldiers’ fault, however: it is in almost every case entirely the responsibility of the Bush administration.

Given this miserable performance, I am not surprised that American and British soldiers have come under intensifying attack.

But none of this explains why Sunni and Shia Iraqis are now apparently killing each other in large numbers.

Why there is no country whose name is Iraq, Emirates, Bahrain, Kwait, and Quatar when you see the world’s map before 1930.

Because they weren’t drawn by the British, French, and others until after the collapse of the Ottoman empire after the First World War.

But, despite these rather arbitrary divisions, Sunni and Shia have seemingly coexisted since 1923 within these borders, and also beforehand within the Ottoman empire.

It is pointless, I should add, to ask me questions about these things, because I don’t know the answers. I am supposing that Iranians are much more likely to have answers to such questions than I do. Which is why I’m asking them.

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I am from Iran.we do not like to have atomic bomb,actually all powers direct our governors to take it inorder to increase our power for defend.if i were
you ,i try to use soft words to absorb iranians.we
never like terror nor we are terrorists.just look around the world and see iranian scientists in different fields.who said for the benefit of Europeans
and Americans all world must bend on their knees and welcome them and let them do whatever they want in their countries .Iran with 3000 years of her past heroism in defend of this country still is ready to do
many things without need of atomic bomb just we are thisty for kindness and friendliness in action.

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I’m not an Iranian,not an American either..I’m here in Iran since 1983, does it ring a bell Mr.Boris,yes war time (Iran-Iraq).Surely you know how the war started and WHO were the protectors of Iraq. The world were silent, nobody cares when dilapidated bodies of small kids were scattered on the ground..let them die, right? Hurray to U.S.A, perfect nation who observes human rights. Thanks U.S.A for providing good amunitions that killed thousands of innocent iranians.,got it Mr. Boris? Anyway it was all over, Iranian nation suffers too much but standing still..trying and working hard for it’s nation. There are so many deficiencies but hopefully everything will turn out good..that is ofcourse if YOU ,superpowers, as you call yourselves…will let. Never be scared of Nuclear Bombs…never be selfish, when you have it..let others have it also. I respect all your comments Ladies and Gentlemen…for you Iranians out of your country, i would like to remind you that you must be the first to love your country..no matter what.And for you guys who have never been here..give it a try, it’s not as bad as media says. Thank you.

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At first in iran there is no war between shia and sunnys, 2) french and british used to kill eachother ;so it shouldnt be something new to you 3) the war game is not about religion ,it’s about political power at least in iran’s case vs iraq (read rohola’s khomeny letter who just revealed with iranian intel about week ago) 4)muslims arent killing eachother BRITAIN in fanning the flame , for instance 35 years ago a british navy comander called “persian gulf” Arabian gulf and made arabs to call it “arabian gulf”and it made a great hostility between persians and arabs , national geographic did the same way and now you’r tellin’ me muslim r killing eachother, Britains did the same thing about keshmir in india and pakistan, Iran is going to cut every single foriegner hand from midlle east ,I dont think if it’s a wrrong decision for peace in middle east.5)you mention hostage crisis , how stupid should iran be to apology a country who shut down a 747 Iran air with 245 passenger in persian gulf in 1979, come on Americans kill civilians , germans used to support iraq for any type of microbic or chemical weapon, we still see people in news who r dying because of what europians used to give to saddam, an appology u’ve gotta be kiddin’ me.

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Dear Boris,

Thanx alot! We need atomic bombs. When Israel has these bombs, why we must have nothing?!

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You’re the man mate.

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hi jansoon
you are a reality idea.iran is big country from culture and civilization.iran,s peapal are big peapal.iran needs to advance

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Tom Amos, this isn’t about Iran or Korea wanting to cut down other peoples trees. Iran just wants to be on equal footing with Israel. If the zionists can have them why not Iranians or any other bloke in the block for that matter. As Mr. Johnson said, mutual destruction will prevent them from doing anything foolish.

On the other hand, the Koreans (North) have been trying very hard to talk to the US one-on-one with no success. Basically, they want to tell the US that their inteference into the internal affairs of Korea is standing in the way of unification. Like how the Iraqis are telling the coalition forces now, it is time they left. Their presence is no longer welcome. It is quite clear North Korea can not have any meaningful talk with their southern counterpart when the US is getting in the way. Will they fight? Perhaps. But that is a Korean problem not yours or mine.

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newmania:”It must be difficult to have nothing to be proud of”

You are right mania, It should be really difficult for you!

We Iranians are somewhat ignorant when speaking about our civilization and that it might be humiliating to some others lacking it.

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Steven_L, Amedinejad may be a populist President and the Mullahs too bold in their support of Hezbollah. Why shouldn’t they? They created Hezbollah. But should they be punished for that? If so, who punishes the US who support the Israelis with far more destructive weaponry?

Contrary to zionist controlled mass media (read AP) The Lebanese Government was not too thrilled with Israels flagrant foray into their territory. In fact, top on their list of demand and they told Ms. Rice so, was that the Israelis had to leave with immediately. But nobody gave a damn.

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Mr. Steve. your question is will you be provided with same privileges Iranians are getting in your country if you come here…well, with all the sanctions and pressures the world is giving the Iranian Nations, they might not be able to give you those things but surely you will be given same privilages that Iranian people are getting,. In a very simple term…if you come here, you’ll eat thesame bread that we do.Just thesame, i would like to extend gratitudes to your government and people for the great assistance and hospitality being extended to our people.Let me remind you also that most of the Iranians staying in your country are not just ordinary people..they are highly educated and mostly big part of your countries development.

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“Iran created Hezbollah.” That might be true.And surely the responsibility is on our shoulders for their actions. But what about Alqaedah and Taliban? Isn’t it that Taliban was created by US and Uk to counterbalance the military presence of the Russians in Afghanistan? Who is there to be blamed then for the thousands of innocent lives lost in the terrorist attacks launched by Alqaedah so far?

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we support you borris johnson.
your idea is correct

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To Steve who said “Would I get all of that if I moved to Iran?”

I have to infrom you that Those well educated Iranians in England were forced to leave their country after revolution of 1979 and they are more assets than burden. About welfare; you know very well that your country treatment of Iran and it’s oil, since these Iranian wealth and oil were taken for decades by BP, so already YOU have taken hundreds of billions of dollars in advance .
A well educated and mild manner Dr Mosadegh tried to reform the INJUSTICE and crulity of your forefathers to Iran. He was overthrowen by CIA and your intelligence service. It is sad you hurt people and asking compensation too! I know you are well aware of the history of Great Britain what she has done to other nations.
I do not wish any more bloodshed for you or any other nations espacialy Iraqies.
I know you and President Bush tried to give them Democrocy, but look you are bleeding Iraq to death. I know you are not blood thirsty and dictator Saddam is. I wish you knew a better way to rape a nation without bleeding them to death (Forfgive me for some of these expressions). OIL is problem of Iran and Iraq! A bank robber robs banks beacuse he knows money is in banks. God bless you and Queen.

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It looks like we have a few Hezbollah fans in the house. I don’t know how you can support an organisation whos leader says things like:

‘That is why if Lebanon concludes a peace agreement with Israel and brings that accord to the Parliament our deputies will reject it; Hezbollah refuses any conciliation with Israel in principle.’

and

‘There is no solution to the conflict in this region except with the disappearance of Israel’

and

‘If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli’

and even

‘if they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide’

Westerners will never respect a man like that, and Iran, which most of you keep saying wants peace, has no business funding a psychopath like that either.

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Tell me Boris if you lived next door to a convicted arsonist would you be giving them a flame thrower for Christmas? No didn’t think so, so why on earth are you advocating exactly the same principle in our dealings with Iran?

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Well most of the argues I was going to put forward have already been mentioned by my friends but there r some points I wish to clarify:

Iran is not an Arab nation (although some Iranian Arabs live in iran and r fully respected)

in reply to Steven:
If u come to Iran u will enjoy a warm hospitality and no one humilates u there.
Many Iranians hate Hizbullah and even their own rullers but they hate racists the most!
Don’t beleive whatever u see or hear in the western media about Iran; pay a visit and feel the difference!
Repeating the “Axes of Evil” might make people think u have had a bad expirience in ur childhood!
Why don’t u take a sleep man?
and Persian Gulf will remain Persian for ever…

The reason u see more Iranian here than the British is BBC Persian link to this weblog (and u would have seen more if it was not filtered in Iran), thanx to BBC.
Bravo Sara.
Thanx to Boris
Cheers

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‘Isn’t it that Taliban was created by US and UK to counterbalance the military presence of the Russians in Afghanistan? … Who is there to be blamed then for the thousands of innocent lives lost in the terrorist attacks launched by Alqaedah so far’ (Anahita)

The US helped the Afghan Mujahideen, including foreign fighters such as Bin-Laden fight the Soviets but did not create the Taliban. The Taliban, mainly Afghan Pashtuns, became the dominant political power following a period of civil conflict after Soviet withdrawl.

Bin-Laden and his associates formed Al-Qaeda after the Soviets had left Afghanistan and were given safehaven by the Taliban.

Quite simply Al-Qaeda are to blame for their terrorist attacks. These attacks were committed with explosives of civilain aircraft, not weapons from Iran like Hezbollahs rocket attack on Israel.

Sure, in retrospect a pre-emptive attack against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda might have prevented 9/11, but everyone would have declared such a move as US agression, and illegal.

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‘and Persian Gulf will remain Persian for ever…’ (Kamran – Iran)

So is there hostility in Iran towards the nations of the Arabian peninsular then?

The Saudi’s are rearming as we speak and Iran have developed a new fighter jet. Is it conceivable this arms race lead to war between the Saudi’s and Iran?

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thi is for STEVE other friends in this forum who demand the Iranian governments apology to the UST for a single act of hostage taking which was indeed a clear reaction to the years of the country’s captivity by the USA’s policy.

some reasons why USA should aplogize to the whole world.
Massive war crimes in Vietnam war: The mass murder of well over 1 million (some say about 3 million) innocent Vietnamese civilians during the Vietnam war was an act of mass state terrorism. (The USA also used chemical weapons such as dioxins in this aggressive war.) The USA should have been forced to pay hundreds of billions of dollars of reparations for their war crimes. But instead, the USA imposed horrendous trade sanctions on Vietnam which led to mass starvation for many years. At the same time, the USA forced the Vietnamese to put a humiliating amount of effort into finding decades-old corpses of American war criminals. Hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian Vietnamese died without their bodies being recovered. But US citizens are capable of feeling no sympathy for any people other than their own. They think that one American is worth a thousand foreigners. There are many people in the USA even now who are proud of their participation in the mass murder and war crimes in Vietnam .
Destruction of democracy in Chile : The removal of the freely elected democratic government of Chile by the CIA, including the bombing of the presidential palace (on another September 11), followed by the murder of thousands of innocent civilians. This proves that the USA is not in favour of democracy.
Embargo of Cuba but not China or Saudi Arabia : Decades of embargo of the popular government of Cuba , while the USA gives most favoured nation status to China , which is one of the most undemocratic governments in the world. The support for China and Saudi Arabia is purely in the US self-interest. The dislike of Cuba by the USA is really due to the fact that Cuba does not bow to the USA .
Preference for totalitarian China , not democratic Taiwan : For a few decades now, the USA has been cooperating with China in the international ostracism of Taiwan . Although Taiwan is a democratic country and China is a totalitarian dictatorship, the USA takes the side of China . This is because the USA wants access to China ’s markets for its own mega-capitalists. This shows that the USA is against democracy. The USA actually prefers to have totalitarian dictatorships as allies, as has been shown for many decades around the world. The USA is not pro-democracy. The USA is just pro-mega-capitalist. How can anyone believe that the USA prefers democracy when they see them isolate Taiwan so as to be friendly towards China ? Some people argue that the USA is the world’s strongest guarantor of Taiwan ’s security against Chinese agression, but the USA also accepts and propagates the lie that Taiwan is part of China , and the USA gave the Taiwanese seat at the UN to China .
The USA supported the military junta in Greece 1967-1974: Greeks still despise the USA for supporting the coup and this period of dictatorship.
Total support for Israel ’s ethnic cleansing of Palestinians: The USA continues to protect, encourage and finance Israel ’s 6 decades of ethnic cleansing in Palestine . The USA thwarts every humane gesture by the United Nations. The USA encourages and financially supports the slaughter of several hundred innocent people in Palestine every year by the Israeli death squads seeking Lebensraum. It is clear that the USA ’s ruling class is in love with Israel . They are blinded by love. [If the Palestinians all converted to Christianity, the scales would fall from the eyes of the US Americans. Then they would realise that the Palestinians are human beings.] The occupied West Bank of Jordan resembles the Warsaw Ghetto of World War II. The occupied West Bank is a slave prison of the jewish Israelis. But deeds which were evil when the Germans did them in WW2 are now encouraged every day by the USA when the Israeli land thieves do them. Seeing the enthusiastic US American support for Israelis turning innocent Palestinians into mincemeat is the principal cause of worldwide muslim anger against the USA . (Jewish intellectuals, as individuals, are the best people in the world in my opinion. The jewish people have the highest regard for education, intelligence and learning. But the Israeli apartheid regime has soiled the good name of all jewish people.)
My personal theory about the love affair between the USA and Israel is that US Americans feel a deep sense of emptiness in their short history. They can look back with nostalgia to the early migrations, the severance from Britain , the settlement/appropriation of the West, and the Civil War. But they have no deep sense of history as other nations have. To fill this gap, they look to the christian bible, which is tacked onto the jewish bible, and see their deeper origins as lying in Jewish history. Therefore US Americans feel that in some fundamental sense they originate from the Jewish people. So the love of Israel is really a kind of yearning for the ancestors. If the USA severed its attachment to Israel , US Americans would have to face the emptiness of their own short history. Some people wonder why a rich country such as the USA is so obsessed with religion. (Usually religion fades in rich countries.) The answer may be that christianity gives the USA a deeper national creation mythology than they can compose in their own right. The jewish and christian stories are substitutes for a deeper US American national creation mythology.
Causing the `Asian meltdown’ through oppressive loan conditions: Enforcement of completely inappropriate and humiliating conditions on Thailand through the IMF, which is controlled by the USA . In the Asian crisis of about 1997, the currency of Thailand collapsed, due to the sudden withdrawal of huge amounts of capital, mostly by the USA . As a result, there was massive unemployment, thousands of people committed suicide, and the misery continues to this day. The IMF forced Thailand to carry out even more inappropriate measures after the crisis, whereas Malaysia refused the IMF commands. Malaysia ’s economy improved quickly but Thailand ’s did not. The economies of Vietnam and China hardly noticed the Asian meltdown, because they did not follow the IMF commands.
Support for Pol Pot genocide: The USA backed Pol Pot with arms, training, finance and full diplomatic support for over a decade. This was one of the worst regimes in history, which killed over 1/3 of the population of the country. But the USA supported Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge as they continued to commit atrocities and destroy the country of Cambodia with land mines. The rise of Pol Pot started when the USA was illegally bombing huge areas of Cambodia and Laos , intentionally killing vast numbers of innocent civilians. The USA has never apologized for these crimes.
Colonization of Hawaii : The USA colonized and annexed Hawaii . The USA should decolonise this independent nation. This proves that the USA is not anti-colonization.
Training of terrorists in Latin America: The USA funds the infamous terrorist training school called the School of the Americas .
Funding, weapons and training for Nicaraguan terrorists: The USA gave huge amounts of funding to terrorists in Nicaragua who killed hundreds of thousands of Nicaraguans in the 1980s with guns and mines on farmland. Tens of thousands of innocent civilians lost their legs or were maimed in other ways. When there was finally an election along US-approved lines, the USA said the vote was not fair and would not be recognized – until it emerged that the USA ’s puppet won, and then they immediately announced that the election was completely fair. (The previous election which brought the Sandinistas to power was recognized by official European observors and everyone else as free and fair. But the people didn’t elect a a pro-mega-capitalist government. So the US rejected that election as flawed. This is because US governments think that democracy and pro-US-capitalism are the same thing. The USA was happy with the previous puppet dictator Somoza.)
Illegal mining of Managua harbour: The USA illegally mined Managua harbour. When the USA was taken to the international court for this and the USA lost the case, the USA immediately withdrew its recognition of the court, even though it had agreed by treaty to give at least 6 months notice of withdrawal of recognition. The USA clearly believes that only other countries need to abide by international agreements. The USA is exempt from all international law.
Refusal by the USA to accept Jewish refugees before WW2: The 907 Jewish refugees aboard the St. Louis from Hamburg were refused entry to the USA in 1939. Some people blame the general refusal to accept these refugees for Hitler’s belief that he could exterminate them. ( US Americans may think that Israel loves the USA . Well, maybe Israel loves what the USA does for them, but Israel has several hundred nuclear weapons in case the USA stops being their friend.)
Lack of empathy for suffering in poor countries: US citizens have limited comprehension of how much other countries suffer. I’ve heard of some US women who see news stories of third world countries where people are starving saying how much they envy the slim figure of the poor women.
Arrogant, conceited nationalism: US citizens have a general attitude that they are rich because they are superior. This is totally explicitly stated, especially on ceremonial occasions. The reason the USA is rich is for many reasons, including very successful exploitation of other countries, the fact that they came into World Wars I and II very late when other countries were exhausted, the geographical isolation of the USA, the fertile land which they took from the indigenous people (whom they largely exterminated), and their homogeneous language and culture.
Imposition of unfair conditions of trade: Throughout the 1990s, the USA has been imposing globalisation on the whole world. This is a propaganda term which means harmonization of the world to the USA’a culture, economics and politics. It would be more accurate to call it provincialization. All countries are forced to cut back on all public services and social welfare as the US has done, and every country must accept anything that the US wants to export, no matter how much this harms the economies of non-US countries. This often means that even valid health objections are rejected by the USA . When other countries succeed in exporting to the USA , e.g. farm goods at 1/3 the cost of production, the USA puts on heavy tariffs and gives substantial support to US farmers. Current estimates are that 50% of US farm income comes from the government. The USA does not permit any other country to do this. When other countries object, the USA wrangles in courts for years until so much damage is done that the issue is no longer relevant. The so-called globalisation makes poor countries poorer and the USA richer. Free trade means capitalist-controlled trade as opposed to trade which is controlled by governments as representatives of the people. Globalization implies the destruction of sovereignty.
Theft of Spanish lands in America : The USA stole vast areas of land from the Spanish empire to create California , Texas etc.
Support for Indonesian massacre of Chinese: The USA approved the Suharto government’s killing of about 500,000 Chinese Indonesians who were suspected of being communist sympathisers.
Support for Indonesian invasion and massacre of East Timor: The US government gave the go-ahead to the Indonesian government to invade East Timor in 1975. This resulted in the several hundred thousand deaths of innocent civilians, with US approval.
Invasion of Haiti : Occupation of Haiti in 1994 to install US choice of r¨¦gime. (See also 2004 overthrow of democracy in Haiti by USA .) The USA also invaded and occupied Haiti from 1915 to 1934.
Invasion of Panama : Invasion of Panama to get just one guy, Noriega, who happened to be a CIA employee who was conducting most of the cocaine trade from South America into the USA . US forces killed many innocent people.
Invasion of Grenada : Invasion of Grenada in 1983 to install pro-US government. This was part of Reagan’s foreign actions to make US citizens feel proud again. (The USA really should find ways of feeling good that don’t involve making foreigners into mincemeat. People who study these things say that the USA has invaded 67 countries from 1945 to 2004 and has killed some tens of millions of people in military conflicts in that time.)
Attempted invasion of Cuba : Unsuccessful invasion of Cuba (1961) to install pro-US-capitalist government. Large numbers of people pointlessly killed for ideological/economic reasons, with no apology. In 2002, the US government still hates Cuba more than any country. The USA takes a very, very long time to forgive countries which successfully resist (and thereby humiliate) the US Empire. (Others include Iran and Vietnam .) The USA is a poor loser.
Forcing poor countries to import US tobacco: In many countries, especially in Asia, the USA has forced governments to accept imports of US tobacco as a condition of normalising trade. And in some countries, the USA insisted that since they had to catch up for lost sales of cigarettes in the past, they should be allowed to conduct big advertising campaigns. They insisted on this despite the fact that many of these countries had already banned cigarette advertising for health reasons. Therefore the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Asians is due to these disgusting fair trade conditions by the USA .
Support for Muslim terrorists in Afghanistan : Support of muslim fanatics in Afghanistan to kill Russians and other Soviet citizens. The Russian presence improved the quality and equality of life in Afghanistan . As a result of US actions in Afghanistan , huge numbers of Russian conscripts were killed, the country’s political system collapsed, and the political vacuum was filled by US client groups who violated human rights on a vast scale with US support, knowledge and acquiescence.
Support for Iraqi war crimes and weapons of mass destruction: Support for Iraqi aggression against Iran in the Iraq-Iran war of the 1980s, despite the very well-known fact that Iraq attacked Iran pre-emptively without warning from the air in the expectation of destroying all of Iran ’s planes on the ground and occupying all of Iran . The Iraqis killed over 1 million Iranians (which helps explain the high proportion of young people in Iran now 20 years later). The Iraqis used chemical and biological weapons with US knowledge and active support because of the US desire to punish Iran . (This shows that the USA is in favour of the use of `weapons of mass destruction’ by its clients, allies and puppets. WMDs are okay for the USA ’s friends.) The USA never forgives a country which has beaten or humiliated the USA . In punishment for the Iranians taking 50 US citizens hostage for 1 year, the USA strongly supported and assisted the murder of millions of Iranians. The USA still has punishing sanctions against Iran for no good reason.
While siding with Iraq against Iran , the US shot down an Iranian passenger plane, killing hundreds of people, even though it was clear from all sources of information that it was a civilian plane. Some trigger-happy naval officer shot it down before thinking. This is the problem with giving the muscles of a giant to someone with the mind of a child. The USA just so easily wipes out hundreds, thousands or millions of lives without consequences to itself. The same trigger-happy reckless behaviour has been shown by the US military in all conflicts. But when anything happens to a US citizen, there’s hypocritical moral outrage.
Killing thousands of innocent poor Afghans: In the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan , the USA , looking for a small group of bandits, has shot up the whole country, causing a massive increase in starvation and other suffering. When several hundred (about 350) Taleban surrendered in one city, the USA used aerial bombing to kill every one of them, even though they were unarmed and had surrendered. This is a very serious war crime under the Geneva convention. Combatants are required to give quarter, but the USA has operated an explicit policy of taking no prisoners. They stated that they intended all al Qaida and Taliban to be killed. The USA should be brought before war crimes tribunals for these crimes, but the USA will refuse to even think about this possibility. In fact, the US government has passed a law to impose sanctions on any country which cooperates with the International Criminal Court, and they have passed a law to indemnify all US war criminals from any legal action. Thus the USA has declared that it is free to commit war crimes with impunity. ( 2002-12-19 : It has emerged that the USA was responsible for the murder of about 8000 Taliban who had surrendered. This is why the USA is so afraid of the International Criminal Court. They are as bad as the Serbs were in the 1990s.)
( 2003-3-24 : The US government says that the Iraqis must abide by the Geneva convention in the treatment of US prisoners. But the USA denied Geneva convention rights to thousands of Afghan prisoners from 2001. After more than a year, these prisoners are still being maltreated in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba . This shows once again that all countries in the world must obey international conventions – all countries except the USA .) After tearing up the Geneva Convention in regard to Afghanistan , the USA complained loudly about extremely minor matters in their illegal war of aggression against Iraq in 2003, for example when photos of prisoners were shown on TV, which is not actually against the Geneva Convention. The USA insists that other countries must very precisely obey international conventions, but the USA never accepts that international law applies to them.
Monopoly of GPS systems for world military dominance: The USA is currently (late 2001) preventing Europe from starting its own GPS system. They say it is against US interests. Indeed it is. If the US goes to war with any country, it can use Selective Availability to remove GPS capability from any region of the earth – but the USA military have the decryption codes to use the GPS even if it is rendered completely useless to other nations. This makes it more difficult for non-US countries to aim cruise missiles, but it also cripples air travel and sea travel within the region. This power over the whole world is awesome, and the US cannot be trusted with this power. And now they are trying to stop Europe from taking away the US monopoly. The USA is always against any other country having any sort of monopoly, but fiercely defends its own monopolies.
Unequal trade in defence contracts: The USA requires other countries to permit US companies to bid for defence contracts, and they are believed to use echelon intercepts to find out the bids of their opposition. But foreign countries are not allowed to bid on US contracts mostly, because the US only trusts US citizens to work on US defence projects.
Corrupt, undemocratic US voting system: When other countries have slight irregularities in voting procedures, the USA takes this as a pretext to impose heavy trade sanctions. But often these irregularities are caused mostly by ignorance or misunderstandings. But in the 2000 election in the USA , thousands of African Americans were turned back from the polls in Florida because the officials knew that they would vote for the Democrats. As a result the candidate with the second-most votes was selected to be president. This kind of outright racism and election fixing would be regarded as unacceptable in third world countries. A new election would be required, but in the USA , the national interest required that the irregularities be ignored. The hypocrisy of US government lectures on democracy to other countries is shown by the widespread gerrymanders, first past the post voting, and electoral colleges in the USA . At best, one could call the USA a guided democracy.
Corrupt political lobbying in the USA : The US lectures other countries on cronyism, but has the worst case of crony capitalism in the world. The US government gives in to corporate lobbying on all subjects, including the protection of US farmers and industries from free world trade. Israeli lobbying causes the US government to support horrible human rights abuses in occupied Palestine . The USA ’s form of government could be accurately described as policy payola.
Rejection/sabotage of international standards: Whenever an international standard develops for anything, the USA tries to undermine it. Just one example is the adoption of GSM, which was invented in Europe . The US ideology demanded that there should be multiple competing digital mobile phone technologies because pointless competition is part of the USA ’s culture. As a result, the USA ended up with an appalling mess in mobile telephony whereas the rest of the world got the very successful GSM. Just like IBM had a long history of thwarting every attempt to build industry-wide standards in the computer industry (they only attended standards meeting to sabotage and delay any standards), so the USA tries to prevent the emergence of all world standards. The USA regards international standards as a threat to its world dominance. International standards are not the US national interest.
One-sided world spy system: The USA has a world-wide spying system called echelon, operated in conjunction with the English-speaking AUSCANNZUKUS alliance. [That's AUS+CAN+NZ+ UK +US in alphabetical order. Clever little acronym, isn't it!] This is used to give the USA economic supremacy and political advantage by listening in to all phone calls in the world. The USA has recently passed laws to give it authority over all computer traffic (Internet) which passes through US territory. They have given themselves extra-territorial jurisdiction over supposed computer crimes committed with no connection at all with the USA . Extra-territorial jurisdiction is very much hated by other countries. The USA never accepts extra-territorial jurisdiction by other countries, as shown by the case where France required Yahoo to not sell Nazi memorabilia to French citizens. A US court overturned this.
Denial of data security and computer technology to poor countries: For many decades, the US has operated an international cartel of capitalist countries to deny strong encryption and powerful computers to any country which the US has any sort of disagreement with. This has helped to impoverish many other countries.
Secretly breaking its own trade boycotts to gain advantage: When the USA organised an international boycott of selling wheat to the USSR in 1980, the USA secretly agreed with the boycotted countries that the USA would get all of their contracts after the boycott was lifted. Thus countries like Australia which went along with the boycott lost all their markets to the USA after the boycott was lifted. This was very much hated in Australia . The USA also mucked up the whole 1980 Olympics because of their objection to the USSR entry into Afghanistan . If this is how the USA treats its allies, its a wonder that the USA has any allies at all.
Bullying low-crime countries to accept gun proliferation: The USA tries to export its gun culture/obsession to other countries. US lobby groups send missionaries to other countries, such as Australia , to strengthen opposition to gun laws. Since the USA has almost 4 times the per capita murder rate of Australia , gun culture would not be a very good idea for Australia . (The murder rate by guns in the USA is about 110 per million per year, or about 30,000 per year for the whole country. The total murder rate in Australia by all methods is only about 30 per million per annum because of sensible gun control laws.) But the USA thinks that their constitution is the best in the world, and anyone who is different must be stupid or evil. They also like to sell more guns. So they interfere with the sovereignty of other nations by stirring up and supporting anti-gun-law lobbyists in other countries. The USA uses totally moronic slogans like guns don’t kill people; people kill people to help push their gun culture. But they don’t say nuclear weapons don’t kill people; people kill people. You should never listen to any justification the USA gives for any policy. They have only one policy motive, which is naked self-interest. They work out what’s in their self-interest first, and then they get the PR people to work out a justification for it.
Cultural domination through extra-territorial copyright law: The US imposes its laws against music and video copying throughout the world, exercising extra-territorial `jurisdiction’. Because of the use by pathetically weak encryption by the US music and film industry, the USA has a law called the DMCA, which forbids decryption of music and videos. But people in Europe and Russia have decrypted these formats. Therefore these people are prosecuted in the USA for acts which are legal in other countries. One prominent example is the CSS encryption, which enables US companies to charge more in Europe than in the USA , Asia or Europe , for instance. It also prevents linux users from playing video disks. This kind of market distortion is the opposite to globalisation and is anti-competitive. This shows that the USA lies when they say they are in favour of globalisation and free competition. They are only in favour of globalisation and free competition in market sectors where the USA is strong. In the markets where the USA is weak, they enforce anti-competitive and anti-trade protectionist measures, and laws to distort markets in their favour. The USA has unilaterally extended the 28 years of copyright protection which used to be the international norm to 50 and now to 70 years. (Some people say, probably correctly, that this is to satisfy Disney and such companies.) Then the USA forces their one-sided interests on everyone else. (Here’s a news item on this.) Remember that the propaganda slogan free markets really means capitalist-controlled markets as opposed to markets which are regulated by governments as the representatives of all the people.
Environmental delinquency: The USA unilaterally withdrew from the climate treaty, because it was not in the US short-term interest to cooperate with other countries. This is despite the fact that the USA has about the same standard of living as western Europe with about twice the per capita energy consumption. The USA is just an extremely inefficient consumer of fuel, which forces to the rest of the world to use less. The USA wants other countries to make economic sacrifices to help the USA , but not vice versa.
Unilateral withdrawal from ABM treaty: The USA is unilaterally withdrawing from the ABM treaty out of perceived self-interest. I think that the Russians have not objected to this because they know that the USA is just wasting its money. But the USA wants to have complete impunity to bomb any country in the world back into the stone age, like Afghanistan, without any risk at all of retaliation.
Economic subjugation and megadeath through extra-territorial patent law: The USA insists that patent law should be sacred world-wide when the USA wants to maximize its profits from AIDS treatment drugs. As a result, millions of people are dying needlessly world-wide in poor countries. But when the USA wanted to get some cheap anti-anthrax drugs because about 3 people in the USA had died, then on the grounds of national emergency, the USA said that they should be able to override the patents just to get a price reduction for a drug which they could well afford. This has outraged people worldwide who see that the value of a USA citizen is a million times greater than that of citizens of other countries, in the USA ’s view.
War crimes in Germany in WW2: Participation in the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians in terrorist attacks on Germany in the Second World War.
First use of nuclear weapons in Japan in WW2: Use of nuclear weapons against hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Japan in the second world war. This was not how the war ended actually. The Japanese had been trying very hard to surrender, but the US refused to accept their surrender because they wanted to try out the nuclear weapons which were ready too late for the European theatre for which they were intended. Thus the USA prolonged the war with Japan so as to be able to test the effects of nuclear weapons on hundreds of thousands of civilians. This is definitely a war crime.
[ 2004-8-7 : Here's a counterpunch.org article about the Japanese attempt to surrender. As the author David Price says: But beyond the obvious message sent to the Soviets, Truman's decision to use his doomsday weapon (twice) without presenting the Japanese with the actual conditions of his unconditional surrender revealed elements of an important American post war trajectory -- a trajectory of violence where American military force became the tool of preference selected over the promise of diplomacy. Sound familiar?]
War crimes against Japan in WW2: The USA fire-bombed Tokyo , killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, simply with the intention of terrorising the population. This is a serious war crime. Both during WW2 and ever since then, the US government has openly expressed and followed a doctrine of mass murder of civilians as a means to demoralize the enemy and minimize their own losses. The Geneva convention was supposed to outlaw this. Yet the USA quotes the Geneva convention loudly when they want the victim countries to treat captured US war criminals in a friendly manner. It’s okay for the USA to kill tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians, but the countries which the USA attacks must give captured US soldiers the maximum dignity and consideration. Might is right, as they say. Only the USA is above international law. (Other governments can also get an exemption from international law by cutting a deal with the US government.)
Murder of innocent thousands in Sudan : President Clinton ordered the bombing of a Sudanese pharmaceuticals factory, thinking erroneously that it was for producing some sort of armaments. Several hundred people were killed in this. Then the USA put trade restrictions on Sudan so that pharmaceuticals could not be imported. As a result, since that time many tens of thousands of additional people have died of malaria because that factory was producing anti-malaria drugs. This crime in itself was much more serious than the 2001-9-11 suicide hijacking.
Energy wastage: In terms of energy efficiency, the USA has about the same standard of living as Western Europe but with twice the consumption of energy. As a result, the USA has to control world oil prices so as to maintain its standard of living. On top of this, they refuse to restrict their pollution of the atmosphere. Controlling oil prices requires hegemony over the oil-producing countries, which is partly why the US helps the apartheid regime of Israel acquire weapons of mass destruction.
Support for Irish terrorism: For the last 30 years, the USA has been the principle funder of the Irish terrorists who have been killing both civilians and soldiers trying to keep the peace in Northern Ireland . This shows that the USA only objects to terrorists who are muslim and anti-USA. The anti-british northern Irish terrorists are pro-USA. So the USA sends them lots of money and political support to kill the English in Britain and the protestants in northern Ireland . This shows that the USA very definitely will not declare a war on all terrorists.
Callous, calculated delay in WW2 participation: During the Second World War, the USA was originally planning to send about 215 army divisions to Europe in 1943 to remove the Nazis. But they worked out that this would negatively impact their economy. So they changed their plans and sent only 90 divisions in 1944. As a result, the US economy improved during the World War II, while the economy of Europe contracted by about 25%. During the extra year, several million more people died, including a few million people in concentration camps such as the European Jews. This shows that the USA values its own economy much more than the lives of millions of innocent people in other countries. The US entry into WW2 was in the US interests, not an altruistic act. Until Pearl Harbour, the US was pro-nazi. The US only decided to take the side of democracy in Europe when it was clearly in the USA’s self-interest to do so.
The Russians still bitterly resent the fact that the USA and the UK took several years to open the Western front against Germany in WW2. During this time, the Soviet Union lost millions of lives, mostly civilians. The Soviet Union continually pleaded desperately to the Western powers to open a Western Front. The USA finally invaded Europe after it was clear that the Soviet Union was winning against Germany. One might reasonably conclude that the USA only liberated Europe to stop the Russian communists from taking over Europe, after which the USA would have become the minor superpower.
Support for Jewish terrorism to create the Colony of Israel: When the Jewish terrorists killed British and Palestinian people in 1945-1948, the USA gave full support to the terrorists to create a colony out of the land stolen from the Palestinians. The USA supported, financed and harboured these terrorists. Clearly the USA is pro-terrorist. Menachim Begin was one of the terrorists who bombed the King David Hotel in Palestine, and yet the USA gave him full support. In the same way, the USA fully supports the war criminal Ariel Sharon now. (See also this article on Ariel Sharon’s massacre of a West Bank village Qibya in 1953, including women and children.) Isn’t it odd that the country which receives the strongest and most unconditional US support in the world is a country which was created through terrorism? (Come to think of it, the USA itself was created through terrorism against indigenous people, the British and the Mexicans.)
Wilful disregard of Ruandan genocide: When the US personnel in Ruanda knew that there was about to be a massacre, they quickly got all their people out of there and let the massacre happen, making almost no public comment while 800,000 people were murdered. The USA could have stopped it, but they were worried that US citizens might die as they did in Somalia. This must be what the US government means by moral leadership. US moral leadership means getting out of anything that is of no immediate benefit to the USA. One US citizen means more to the US government than 800,000 Ruandans. The US government pretended that they didn’t know there was going to be a genocide, because then they would have been obliged under the Genocide Convention to do something about it. But revelations since then have shown that the government did know about it before and while it was happening.
Harassing the creation of the International Criminal Court: The US government has done everything it can to hinder the establishment of an international court to prosecute war criminals and crimes against humanity because they are worried that they and their client states will be brought before this court. They have even passed a law to put sanctions on any country which cooperates with the international court. Once again, the USA uses extra-territorial quasi-legal measures to intimidate other countries, even their nominal friends and allies, as a way of achieving the USA’s self-interest. In this case, the USA knows that it regularly commits war crimes all over the world. As a result, it will not be possible to bring war criminals of other nationalities to such a court. (PS. During July 2002, the USA has been threatening to close down all UN peacekeeping activities if their war crimes are not made immune to prosecution. This kind of abuse of the UN is reminiscent of Khrushchev (§·§â§å§ë§Ö§Ó §¯§Ú§Ü§Ú§ä§Ñ C§Ö§â§Ô§Ö§Ö§Ó§Ú§é, 1894-1971) banging his shoe on the table to stop proceedings. The USA is now treating the UN as its own rubber stamp.)
Sex overseas by US Americans: US males travelling overseas are very widely resented for seeking and having sex with the local women. This spreads diseases and unwanted children. (These children are called Amerasians in Asia.) But more importantly, it spreads resentment and hatred. This is true in Asia, Europe, Australia, and everywhere else. For example, sex between US soldiers and local women was very much resented in WW2 by British and Australian males. Most resented of all is the fact the local women often prefer US males to the locals because US Americans are richer and might offer them an escape from poverty. Usually the local women are left disappointed and often pregnant.
Resistance to globalisation of measurement units: While lecturing and bullying the rest of the world to accept US exports under the slogan of globalisation (which means Americanization) the USA refuses to globalise its measurement units. They still use the medieval units known as British Imperial measures even though 95% of the world has converted to modern decimal-based units (the metric or SI system) as developed in France during the 18th century. (Maybe US Americans don’t like it because the French invented it.) The USA is 200 years behind the rest of the world, but they keep bullying everyone else to be like them. It’s time they showed some commitment to globalization and immediately removed all usage of miles, furlongs, acres, fahrenheit, feet, inches, pounds, ounces, imperial tons, hundredweight, stones, gallons, quarts and antediluvian paper dimensions. The old units are quaint, but they are a serious impediment to world trade. Get moving, USA, and catch up with the rest of the world!!! Every other country has to produce everything in dual units for the USA. The USA claims to be very modern, but is the most backward country in the world in measuring units. Everybody else in the world can cope with metric units. Come on, USA. Give it a go. You can do it!
Attempting to create/maintain world monopolies: One of the many clear examples of the USA creating or maintaining world monopolies is Boeing. In the last year or so, the European competitor Airbus Industrie announced they would build a very large passenger plane, and the US government said it wasn’t fair competition because there was some government loan involved. But the USA gives huge tax advantages to its own capitalists so that they can compete unfairly with other countries. Boeing doesn’t have the same burden to contribute to the social welfare that Airbus does in Europe. The Europeans believe that capitalists should pay tax to support the general social good, whereas the USA think that the ordinary taxpayers should support their industries. This gives the USA a strong edge in overseas markets because their taxpayers are subsidising their companies. Therefore it is fully justified for European governments to give a little money back to Airbus to partially compensate for the larger tax burden in Europe. Another way that the USA gives its capitalists an unfair advantage is through the use of the echelon spy system to acquire information on how the bidding is progressing for tenders for big projects, for example for aeroplane purchases. This kind of abuse of a supposed defence system for shafting the overseas competition is greatly resented, as are all of the unfair competitive malpractices of the USA.
Support for massacres by UNITA in Angola: The USA gave strong support to the UNITA terrorists (led by Jonas Savimbi) in Angola who massacred about 500,000 people in the most horrible way. The killings occurred especially after they lost free elections which they had agreed to. The reason the USA supported UNITA was the fact that the legitimate government was socialist. This is yet another proof that the USA’s government is anti-democracy. Only pro-capitalist governments are supported by the USA. In fact, the USA always confuses laissez-faire economics with democracy. They think that any government that restricts capitalism in any way must be undemocratic. The US-supported UNITA destroyed to economy of Angola, which otherwise would have been a very rich country. Any country which resists US laissez-faire economic ideology is opposed and crushed.
Export of puritan morality, causing massive AIDS deaths: In order to get votes from the fundamentalist christian anti-condom, anti-contraception, anti-abortion lobby, the US government impedes the use of condoms and other forms of contraception in poor countries which have a serious AIDS problem. Just as one example, Kenya has a very serious AIDS problem, but the US has cut off aid to organisations in Kenya making condoms available to prevent AIDS. The result in poor countries of this sort of policy is a vast increase in AIDS sickness and death. The USA say that they give a lot of foreign aid. But this is propaganda nonsense. The USA gives only about 0.1% of GDP in foreign aid, compared to 3 to 7 times as much by most western countries. The USA is near the bottom of the league table in overseas aid. (But they’re at the top of the league table in military killings of innocent civilians.) The consequence of the USA’s negative attitude to contraception for poor countries is actually an increase in abortions because of unaffordable pregnancies. Logic has never been a strong point of US government policies. (GW Bush is credibly believed to have paid for an abortion for his girlfriend, which has been kept quiet by the predominantly pro-Republican US media. See here and here.) It is not even in the USA’s rational interest to deny contraception to poor countries. Excessive fertility rates cause overpopulation and poverty, and these are inimical to US long-term strategic interests.
Export of American recreational drug choices: The USA insists that all other countries must follow the USA’s ideology on recreational drugs, which means that tobacco and alcohol are okay, but hemp, heroin, cocain etc. are not permitted. Other countries have different ideas on which drugs to tolerate and which to ban. But the USA insists that all countries must accept the USA’s choice of drugs and must reject all others. This is a little dictatorial. But it is also extremely hypocritical. Even presidents of the USA have taken drugs, such as gwb taking cocain. But the most recent example of the USA’s weird attitudes towards drugs is Afghanistan. The Taliban reduced opium poppy production from 3300 tons to 180 tons (or something like that) in the last year, but the USA refused to remove sanctions that they imposed to force the reduction in poppy production. (I believe the 180 tons was produced in the area not under the control of the Taleban – it was produced in the area controlled by the US allies, the Northern Alliance.) So the Taleban did exactly as asked, but the USA refused to remove the sanctions. But now that the Taleban’s opponents (the USA’s allies) have taken over, poppy production is back up again, and the USA is taking Afghanistan off its list of nations which produce bad drugs. So just as the heroin production goes up, the USA removes the sanctions. It’s just astonishing that the US thinks that everyone should take them seriously on drugs. If they were really serious about stopping drugs, they would follow the course of the Netherlands and Switzerland, which are having serious success in combatting drugs.
USA is protectionist – but everybody else must accept free trade: In March 2002, the USA put up to 30% tariffs on steel imports to protect the inefficient US steel industry and get votes for the next election. The USA’s propagandists have been on the airwaves explaining why this is a good thing. Unfortunately, the arguments they have used in favour of US protectionism, if true, are even more true for the poor countries of the world. If a rich country like the USA needs to protect its industries, then surely the poor countries have even more need. This is just typical of the USA’s approach to politics – first work out what’s in the USA’s self-interest, then muster the arguments to support the decision. But if the same arguments are used to defend the actions of any other country, they are rejected. Somehow free trade is supposed to be good for every country in the world, but protectionism of the farm sector, the steel sector etc., is good for the USA. People in the USA just can’t remember the arguments they used last month for last month’s policies. The right argument for the USA is always the argument which benefits the USA this month. Protecting the workers is a good thing when the USA wants to increase the cost of production in poor countries to reduce their competitiveness, but protecting the workers is a bad thing when US companies want to exploit workers. A good example of US American protectionism is the exclusion of catfish imports from Vietnam. The USA just can’t compete. So they call efficient production dumping or unfair trade. But that just means that the USA can’t compete on a level playing field.
CIA trained Mujahideen to make heroin from poppies: The Mujahideen in Afghanistan did not make poppies into heroin until the CIA showed them how to do this so as to get Russian soldiers hooked on heroin. So now Afghanistan is a big exporter of heroin. In fact, the Taleban stopped the growing of poppies, and the US backed the Northern Alliance which kept making heroin when the Taleban stopped 95% of production. All over the world, the CIA is known to have encouraged their clients (local anti-democratic terrorist groups) to get into illegal drug production to finance their terrorist activities. This is particularly true in Central and South America. And yet the USA is always lecturing to other countries that they should have zero tolerance of the drugs which they choose to make illegal. The USA is against compassion for drug victims such as is shown by the Netherlands government.
Bhopal disaster, India: When a US company caused the deaths of many thousands of people in India, the USA gave negligeable compensation to the victims. The sympathy for these people was less than the sympathy for any minor incident in the USA. The USA’s big companies value the lives of non-US citizens at absolute zero. But when even one US citizen is killed, there’s a huge fuss. If the USA wants people to feel sympathetic towards their victims of disasters, they should start regarding non-US citizens as full human beings. All the USA thinks about in disasters like Bhopal is how to minimize the compensation payouts. So why should anyone feel sympathy for the much less serious NY incident on 2001-9-11 . The USA is milking that incident for all it’s worth.
Korea Airlines KAL 007 spying mission: When there was very strong opposition throughout Europe to the stationing of US intermediate range ballistic missiles in Europe for pre-emptive attacks on the Soviet Union – which would have caused Europe to be annihilated by the Soviet Union if such an attack had been launched – the USA organised for a Korean Airlines passenger plane to conduct a spy flight over a Soviet launch facility during a Soviet military exercise, thereby provoking the Soviet Union to destroy the plane. The USA doctored tapes which were presented to the United Nations. The USA had closely tracked the spy mission with an AWACS plane. The USA didn’t confess to having conducted a spy mission with a passenger plane until well after the issue had left the headlines. In the meantime, the political effect of the destruction of the KAL 007 plane was to remove all opposition to intermediate range ballistic missiles in Europe. So the USA got its policies forced onto Europe at the cost of several hundred Korean lives. (In case anyone thinks that the USA’s spy satellites were so good that they didn’t need to make spy flights, remember that a US spy flight near China was brought down in April 2001. So more than a decade later, the US still needs to make spy flights.)
US citizens are the most wasteful people on Earth: To sustain their lifestyle, US citizens consume about 10 to 20 times the resources per capita of the average of the rest of the world including Europe. Americans think they’re the most productive people on Earth. They are not. They don’t produce the most. They just consume the most. Just as one example, they burn about 25% of the fossil fuels which are consumed by all people on Earth, but US citizens are only about 4% of the population of the Earth. So that means that they consume about (25/4)/(75/96) = 8 times the average of all other nations. US citizens consume about twice the fuel of western Europeans for approximately the same standard of living. But when countries which supply critical materials to the USA threaten to deny supply, the USA is quick to go in with the military to ensure continuation. Americans think that their excessive consumption is an indication of their moral superiority, but in fact the opposite is true.
Export of culture of violence through movies: Since 1945 and long before, the USA has been exporting it culture of violence world-wide. Other countries don’t traditionally create movies with so much violence as US movies. For example, French movies are more oriented to life-style, sex, and life problems. In the USA, when the V-chip was proposed, it was supposed to stop kids watching violence. But US citizens think that sex and violence are inseparable. So they added sex to the list of things to censor with the V-chip. When US movies show sex, they always have to include physical violence, murder and general nastiness. (US citizens may be surprised to learn that sex and violence are thought of as opposites in many other countries.) The huge overdose of murders and visciousness of US movies have been exported world-wide. (US movies pay for themselves in US sales. So they can make the prices low to undercut all indigenous productions overseas. US viewers can’t tolerate overseas movies much, especially with subtitles. So the export doesn’t go the other way much.)
The result of this is that people all over the world are brought up from childhood on a diet of constant crass violence and inhumanity in the movies they see. They are also led to believe that sex requires violence, and that violence is much more socially acceptable than sex. If the USA wants other countries to be peace-loving, perhaps they should stop exporting super-violent movies and try to work out how to make successful movies without a single murder or car chase.
Resistance to outlawing mines: The USA is the principal country resisting the international outlawing of mines. The USA claims that they need mines in Korea. The USA financed the extensive mining of Nicaragua by terrorists. The USA used mines extensively itself in the 1991 war against Iraq. In the 2001/2002 war against Afghanistan, the USA made extensive use of cluster bombs which leave behind very numerous mine-like mini-bombs which kill children because they look like cans of food. Other countries obviously conclude from this that since the leader of the free world says it is a good and necessary thing to lay mines (in a foreign country even), then it must be okay for everyone else. Once again, the USA leads by bad example.
Disparagement, sabotage, harassment and bullying of the United Nations: Since the setting up of the United Nations, the USA has attempted to starve and harass the United Nations at every opportunity. But when the USA needs a fig-leaf of legitimacy for an aggressive military action, they bully and threaten the United Nations. The USA offers bribes whenever they want a `yes’ vote on anything. The USA cuts off aid to any country which votes against it. The UN has been completely corrupted by the USA. The USA regards the UN as a threat to its world dominance. The United Nations is not the US national interest. So the USA has treated the UN like a slave which it starves and gives orders to. The USA vetos everything which is not in the US or Israeli interest. (The USA has used the UN Security Council veto more than 70 times; the UK has used the SC veto more than 30 times.) The UN should have expelled the USA a long time ago. The USA expects all countries to obey the resolutions which it sponsors, and non-compliance means that they will be invaded. But the USA refuses to obey any resolution which is not convenient for it. The concept of cooperation is alien to the USA’s psychological nature. How can other countries make sacrifices to meet the expectations of the UN when the USA thwarts and disparages the United Nations at every opportunity?
Killing dozens of Italian cable car passengers: A few years ago, US air force pilots in Italy were playing around in their jet fighter by skimming just underneath the cable supporting a few dozen skiers. They cut the cable and all of the skiers were killed. This kind of thing happens time after time because USAF pilots treat their job as being like a game. And the cost is often large numbers of foreign lives. Apologies from the USA for such reckless murder using their killer toys are very rare and never genuine. Another example is the reckless killing of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan in 2002.
Opposition to democracy in Australia: In 1975, the USA listed Australia as being one of the top security threats in some list of assessments of allied governments. Australia was regarded as a serious risk to the USA because it had a Labor government. It is rumoured that the CIA supported the coup against the legally elected Labor government in 1975 which resulted in an election and a pro-USA party in power. At the time of that election, Australian army reserve forces were put on alert to implement martial law in case the Labor government was re-elected. The USA has never accepted the full legitimacy of Labor governments in Australia. Nor have their proxies, the misnamed Liberal party of Australia.
Support for enslavement of poor countries: In cooperation with Europe and other rich countries, the USA concsiously or unconsciously keeps poor countries in a condition of debt bondage. In India and some other countries, there are millions of people who have such heavy debt and such low incomes that they must work for their whole life to pay off their debt, and then they pass on the debt to their children who inherit the debt. In this way, millions of Indians are in a condition which is no different to slavery. In the same way, there are very many poor countries in the world which will never be able to pay off their national debt to the rich countries. Therefore they are obliged to work forever for foreign masters. A recent example of this is Argentina, where many people do not have enough food, but the food which is produced must be exported to pay off debt. Thus there are many countries which must work to pay off an unpayable debt forever rather than working to feed their own people. About half the people of the world are in countries in this condition of `debt bondage’ or slavery, and the USA is strongly opposed to relieving these countries of unpayable debt. Whereas the USA used to have slaves in their own country, now there are starving slaves in many other countries working to produce things for the USA instead of working to feed themselves. This is a total and utter humiliation of the poor countries. The world is now divided into master countries and slave countries, and the USA is very reluctant to let the slaves go free, since the USA’s wealth depends on these billions of slaves. (The reason why the USA is the Land of the Free is because they’ve enslaved most other countries either financially through unfair trade or else militarily.)
Gulf of Tonkin incident: In 1964, the US government administration lied about the North Vietnamese attacking US ships in the Gulf of Tonkin and used this as a pretext for a massive escalation of aggression against North Vietnam. The US government’s respect for truth is similar to Hitler’s respect for truth when he invaded Poland because of the alleged mistreatment of Germans by the Poles.
The Kuwait incubator babies lie: The USA lied to the UN about the removal by Iraqis of Kuwaiti babies from incubators in order to justify the war against Iraq in 1991. They trained a young female member of the Kuwaiti royal family to cry as she told the lies to a UN meeting. This lie by the USA is comparable to the Nazi lie about Jews eating German babies. (In fact, the USA’s propaganda about the threat from International muslim conspiracy is comparable to the Nazi propaganda about the threat from the International Jew. Those who do not understand history are condemned to repeat it!) How can the world take seriously any evidence presented to the UN by the USA again? In late 2002 and early 2003, the USA is asking for the world’s trust in its evidence to justify invasion of Iraq.
War crimes against Iraq: In the 1991 war to liberate Kuwait from Iraq, the US planes killed thousands of retreating soldiers. One of the US pilots at the time said it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Even most US Americans thought that this was shameful, but the US military never apologize for their war crimes.
Establishment of the new principle of pre-emptive war: In 2002/2003, the USA’s very clever propaganda organisations have come up with a new euphemism for naked aggression. Now they’re calling it pre-emptive military action. The US Americans are experts in language abuse. It used to be taken for granted that the country which attacks first is the guilty party. This approach had the advantage that if no one wants to be the first to attack, then no one will ever attack. So outlawing aggression has the effect of minimizing war. Now the USA has changed that with the new doctrine of pre-emptive war. Since the USA is the leader of the world, all countries in the world will now conclude that they can conduct a pre-emptive action with justification. The effect will be an outbreak of numerous wars in the next decade as every country which feels threatened invades its neighbours. When other countries catch up with the USA’s current military technological advantage, the USA will regret deeply its might is right approach to world affairs.
Abuse of the IMF as a tool of international blackmail: We have been seeing in early 2003 how the USA uses the IMF as a tool to bribe and threaten poor countries. The original purpose of the IMF was not to provide a tool for bribing and bullying, and yet the US government uses the IMF in this way. All of the poor countries on the UN security council are shaking in their boots because of US threats to cut IMF aid if they vote against the unjust war of the USA against Iraq. If it’s a question of morality, then why does the USA have to use threats and bribes? In particular, the USA has offered some IMF loans as bribes to Turkey. This kind of misuse of the IMF has been going on for decades. The USA misuses also many other international organisations in the same way to bribe and bully other countries.
Removal of Boutros Boutros-Ghali from the United Nations: When the term of Boutros Boutros-Ghali as Secretary-General of the United Nations came to and end, there was unanimous and strong agreement of the Security Council that he should have a second term. But this was vetoed by the United States. (This proves that the USA is not in favour of consensus on the UN Security Council.) The USA continually blocked the re-appointment until eventually everyone had to agree to the USA’s appointment of Kofi Anan, the USA’s puppet, to the position. So Kofi Anan was appointed with a `majority’ of 1 vote for and 14 votes against. This shows that the United Nations is a passive tool of the US government.
The master plan to subjugate the entire Middle East: The US government has announced in March 2003, and earlier through its christian right-wing think tanks, that it intends the war of aggression against Iraq to be part of a total subjugation of the Middle East. This is a new Drang nach Osten to turn Middle East nations into US provinces or economic slave colonies. The previous Drang nach Osten was aimed at subjugating the Slav peoples. Now the USA has found a new class of Untermenschen to enslave in the Middle East.
Ethnic cleansing of native Americans: The USA was built on native American land which was stolen. This was achieved by the ethnic cleansing of the entire area of the USA apart from a few reservations which are the bits left over that the colonists didn’t immediately want. US Americans should never forget that the USA is a colony created by theft. Therefore the USA cannot lecture other countries about colonization. A nation that was built from ethnic cleansing and slavery is not in a strong position to talk internationally about morality. The cowboys and indians movie genre during the 20th century has given the impression that the ethnic cleansing of native American lands was something like a sport where the good guys won. How many countries proudly base their national cinema culture on their own history of ethnic cleansing?
Incubator babies Mark II: the Iraq WMD lie: After their success with the notorious Incubator Babies lie in 1991, when the US government presented to the United Nations a woman who they trained to lie about babies being thrown out of the Kuwait hospital incubators by the Iraqi invaders, the US had further success in 2003 with their lies to the United Nations about the Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction. Although Colin Powell talks like a gentlemen, he is an expert liar like the rest of the US government. Meanwhile the USA continues to give massive financial, military and diplomatic support to the only state in the Middle East with WMDs, a state which kills thousands of innocent people in a massive concentration camp every year. Now the US government expects everyone to believe that they are putting pressure on the Israeli regime to give some very limited form of statehood to their little slave colony. The world continues to hope that this time the US government can be trusted. After 55 years of duplicity on this issue, the US government deserves no trust at all until they can show that they can the truth and keep promises. There is no hope of this, of course. It is not in the US government’s interest to tell the truth or keep promises.
Sabotage of Russian oil pipelines: In 1982, the USA blew up a Russian oil pipeline with trojan horse software, thereby killing large numbers of innocent civilians. What good purpose this may have achieved it not clear. Maybe the US government just likes killing people. That’s what it looks like anyway. By creating an explosion with the power of a three kiloton nuclear weapon, the US disrupted supplies of gas and consequential foreign currency earnings.
Installation of puppet Shah in Iran. Overthrow of democracy: The USA and UK conspired to overthrow democracy in Iran because the democratically elected government stopped the US/UK control of Iranian oil. The price of the installation of a dictator in Iran was that in 1980, about 50 US citizens were detained for a year or so while the Iranian government asked for the deportation of the Shah. This was a mild embarrassment compared to the USA’s punishment, its support for the Iraqi invasion of Iran which resulted in millions of Iranian deaths, many of them in poison gas attacks.
Attempts to overthrow democratic government in Venezuela: During 2003/04, the USA has been making persistent attempts to remove the democratically elected government in Venezuela because of criticism of the USA. This is yet more proof that the USA does not respect democracy.
Successful overthrow of democratic government in Haiti: In March 2004, the USA has sucessfully removed the democratically elected leader in Haiti with a puppet leader. This is just one in a very long series of democratic governments overthrown by the USA and replaced with puppet dictatorships throughout the last 100 years. When will the US government learn to be comfortable with foreign democracies?

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Well, that should keep them quiet for a while!

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Steven_L said:
October 14, 2006 6:26 PM | permalink
‘and Persian Gulf will remain Persian for ever…’ (Kamran – Iran)
So is there hostility in Iran towards the nations of the Arabian peninsular then?
………………..
Hey Steve!
What’s the matter with you? Are you really trying to make a reasonable point about Boris’s article or you have found this forum a place to revenge against proud Persian people and their glorious history? If some Iranian has kicked your ass before and you have some personal problem with an individual it is not our problem . you better not to post your ignorant comments with such miserable arguments denying facts and truth .

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idlex said:
October 12, 2006 10:26 PM | permalink

“Suicide bombing is a tactic, not an ethic.

Japanese kamikaze pilots were the suicide bombers of their time. But Japan itself did not commit suicide.

Iran won’t commit suicide either.”

I don’t think this is an accurate analogy. The brand of Islam espoused by Iran glorifies suicide bombing as part of a religious belief that anything – anything – goes in order to destroy the enemy. Suicide was never part of the Japanese state religion. It was part of the battle ethic/social ethic that suicide was more honourable than defeat. This is not the concept behind suicide bombing. People in the West just don’t get this. You think fanatical Muslims think just like we do in the west. Well, they don’t. They have a totally different brand of logic, and destroying their own country in order to destroy “the enemy”, while bringing about the eventual victory of Islam, would seem to them the “logical” thing to do.

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Steven_L said:
October 14, 2006 6:26 PM | permalink
‘and Persian Gulf will remain Persian for ever…’ (Kamran – Iran)
So is there hostility in Iran towards the nations of the Arabian peninsular then?
………………..
you beter keep your stupid ideas about IRAN for yourself

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steven are you living in moon? your people are also racist , they actually kill eachother still in britain and usa as i see , you call black people “negro” still. and you’r gloring culture still is proud of KKK. 2500 years ago Iranians( persians) noticed that every one are the same, so we let jews to be free and we called every one from any part of the world to study in our schools, We still have the highest rate as a country who accept the most refugees ,in iran we have 12 major race and we are not discriminating each other like you do in usa ( blacks and white)and also in europe ,,,so dont try to make something els out of my point. Persians are trying to hold their own culture and land (no matter what comes through we will get over it) .

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Dear Boris on 31 of October Mr Khatami is coming to St.Andrews for receiving an honor PHD in law. I think is an important visit and you can have your message too. For fethure information contact DR. Ali Ansari on aa51 [Email address: aa51 #AT# st-andrews.co.uk - replace #AT# with @ ] your act was an astonishing act. It might leads to some momentums… hope to see in St .Andrews in khatamis speech

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joseph said:
October 14, 2006 7:29 PM | permalink

thi is for STEVE other friends in this forum who demand the Iranian governments apology to the UST for a single act of hostage taking which was indeed a clear reaction to the years of the country’s captivity by the USA’s policy.

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
dear joseph,
you have done a great job I didnt know many of this things about usa and this is a shame for them .thank you for all that and I am 100% agree with you god bless you and IRAN

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The brand of Islam espoused by Iran glorifies suicide bombing as part of a religious belief that anything (Simone)

As best I know, the Quran nowhere advocates suicide. It’s part of neither Sunni nor Shia Islam. It’s simply a practice advocated by a few Islamic fundamentalist extremists. Ahmadinejad is reported to have said he would like the Israeli state to cease to exist, but I have never read anything saying that he’s willing to sacrifice the Iranian people for this.

Never mind Islam, would you like to hear the Christian quotation that could be used, and probably has been used, to justify this? “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” John 15: 13.

But there’s no need to drag religion into it. There isn’t anything particularly unusual or surprising about suicide attacks. They happen in every culture. All you need do is back people into a corner from which there is no escape, and some of them will prefer to die fighting rather than surrender.

The whole notion that Palestinian suicide bombers are crazed religious fanatic is mistaken. That they resort to this simply reflects the condition in which they live, and provides a measure of their desperation. If Israelis were suffering the same, they’d do the same themselves. Indeed, at Masada, in 73AD, the Jewish defenders all committed suicide rather than surrender. I’m sure that if they’d thought of a way of taking a few Romans with them, they would have.

But anyway, I’m sure that you will prefer to demonize Iran, Islam, its fundamentalists, and its suicide bombers, rather than think through the logic. It’s much easier to just say they’re all evil and crazy, isn’t it?

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Idlex you have an open mind .as an iranian i admire your Liberal views.
Good luck

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I used once, Hamed, many years ago, to live in an Islamic country (Libya, before Gaddafi), and I don’t recollect being slaughtered as an infidel. I have spent several years, perfectly happily, in the company of Muslim people, surrounded by the minarets of mosques, and hearing the muezzins call.

I’ve also discussed religion with at least one Muslim (in Egypt in 1990). This very earnest man surprised me by telling me that he was very distressed that Europeans were increasingly ceasing to be practising Christians. He felt that a belief in God was an essential component of a morally good life. One of his parting words was to say that, “At the end of each day, I go home to be alone with my God.”

It occurred to me afterwards that, at the end of each day, I usually spend a while alone at home in quiet contemplation. I regard it as somehow essential to my well-being. But I just don’t tend to think of it as “being with God”, although I imagine my experience is probably not very much different than his.

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I might add that I spent much of my formative years living almost everywhere in the world but England. Such an experience tends to broaden one’s mind, and make one realize that people are pretty much the same everywhere.

But many English people that I know have scarcely been outside their home towns, let alone England. The English, in my experience, are a highly insular people (although less so these days, as they take package holidays to Spain). I think that a great deal of English Europhobia derives from an insularity that blinds them to all that they share with the Europe from which they first came.

I doubt that 26-year-old English Steven_L has even been to France. The less one knows about anything, in my experience, the stronger are one’s absurd convictions. When I was 26, I thought I knew everything.

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I’m an iranian student who left his beloved country a year ago for the US, As we all know Iran’s govenment is not a representor of the iranian people, I would say none of the educated people in iran (religouse or secular) wants nuke. We all have learned our lesson from the Saddam Hossein’s story. The world today is not a field to present our egotism. We have to make the area more stable (It’s already messed up enough) I wish you were an iranian politician to stop these maniacs from going after nuclear energy. This money should have been spent on the people’s basic education we don’t even need nuclear energy. I know it is one of the greenest sources of energy (in terms of radiation per unit weight) but the money spent on booshehr’s plant was million times more than the money needed to start up 10 fuel cell R&D centers

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Boris,
You are the only British who tells the truth on this issue. I like the way you see things.

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I thought your comments in the Daily Telegraph were frivolous and irresponsible. It is the kind of comments that one would expect from a member of the Looney fringe and not from someone who is hoping to be leading light in the next Conservative government. More importantly, your comments displayed a total lack of understanding of the realities on the ground in Iran as well as the mentality and the true intentions of a ruthless theocratic dictatorship that is bent on blackmailing the outside world into inaction while brutalizing and intimidating its own people at home.
Finally, you really must try and take a more profound view of these matters before coming out publicly. Also, in my view, you should try and consult some of your better informed colleagues so that there is some consistency in the views that are expressed by senior members of your party.
I vaguely remember something about you eating humble pie by visiting Liverpool some while ago. Well, one day when Iran has been freed from the yoke of its current bloodstained regime, I do hope that you will visit the country and make amends with a people for whose future you seem you seem to care so little. In this regard, you should note that you do not promote freedom and tolerance by arming murderers and tyrants with nuclear arms.

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It is one of the many paradoxes of the Islamic Republic of Iran that this most virulent anti-Israeli country supports by far the largest Jewish population of any Muslim country.

Whilst I have a smattering of Hebrew in my vocabulary, I don’t speak a word of Arabic, a delinquency I intend to repair. I have often heard Ahmadinejad quoted as saying he wishes to see the eradication of Israel; I am not, however, convinced that this is a direct translation of his words and would be interested to hear from any Iranians contributing here if my suspicions are correct.

As to the issue raised by Boris, to whit, whether Iran should be entitled to a nuclear deterrent, all I can offer is that the most rapaciously destructive regime in the region has many such devices and that doesn’t seem to bother anyone.

My view on nuclear capability is simply that if any one country has them, I don’t see any justification for not allowing any other country the same capability; particularly when an openly aggressive neighbour possesses the facility to deploy nuclear warheads.

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Steven_L said:
‘and Persian Gulf will remain Persian for ever…’ (Kamran – Iran)
So is there hostility in Iran towards the nations of the Arabian peninsular then?
————-
To be sincere, the Iranians and the Sheikhs ruling on the other side of the Persian gulf are not the best friends but both of them are wise enough to know the way to solve a dispute is talking and not war!!! But it seems the people on the other side of the globe have a opposite view!

The reasons the Western see all the Muslims & middle-eastern as suicide bombers or hardliners is their ignorance of our culture and religion and system of thinking.
Mr. Khatami proposed the great idea of Dialogue among the Civilizations aiming at vanishing the misunderstanding between the different nations and cultures.

U would also better to participate in his speech at St.Andrews on the 31st of October to hear different and more logical argues than Ahmadinejad’s blahs!

Mr. Khatami was of the fist presidents in the world condemning the 9/11 attack in the USA.
U must also know that in Islamic thoughts we learn that the suicide committers are the group never goes to heaven.

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I second Mehrdad. The priority here is the realization of the Iranian’s aspirations for freedom and democracy(thier own way not imported or imposed)not the regimes’s lust for more power and strength.And that’s what we should take into account in any argument on this matter.

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As I said in my first post: “In my view, the main victims of such a policy and the primary target of any potential use of the bomb will be the Iranians themselves. As cynical as it might read, in my opinion the Molas’s objective is above all achieving a strong deterrent against the democratic aspirations of Millions of Iranians inside as well as the large Diasporas to change the theocratic and totalitarian regime any time soon.”

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Joseph,

I am one of the millions of people in England who demonstrated against Blair’s illegal invasion of Iraq and who are opposed to Blair and Bush’s war mongering. We wish to see Bush and Blair tried by the International Court for their war crimes.

There is much cogency in your analysis of the appalling conduct of part of the US and your argument that they should apologise to the world for this – as should Blair and his Government.

Where I strongly disagree with you is that you speak of US hegemony yet, with respect, fall into a similar hegemonic trap as the Neocons in America. You seem to class all Americans as the same and paint a picture of all Americans as Neocons. Yet you know that is not the case. Many millions in America are opposed to the Neocons warmongering and have demonstrated against this.

I also feel some of your arguments are too one dimensional. For example, you condemn the US’s participation in action which killed hundreds of thousands of German citizens during WW2, yet fail to place that in the context of Hitler’s Germany’s sub-human conduct and Hitler’s aim of invading and slaughtering much of Europe.

Today I going to an exhibition at the Museum Of Power at Langford – a museum of engine power, by the way, not of military might. The exhibition is to commemorate the 90th anniversary of the crash of the German Zeppelin L33, a massive killing machine 700 foot long by 70 foot in diameter, which crash landed at the tiny village of Little Wigborough a few miles from the museum on September 24th 1916. Some of my family came from the village. This German zeppelin, along with many others – collectively known as the ‘baby killers’ – terrorised the English civilian population with bomb raids and anti personnel attacks on innocent civilians throughout WW1. 500 people were killed during these raids and many thousands injured, only the limitations of the cumbersome technology and the heroism of Royal Air Corps pilots (the night hawks) and anti zeppelin ground defences prevented these monster machines slaughtering 100,000s here. The WW1 zeppelin raids were, I believe, were the first terrorist attacks civilians were ever subjected to from the air.

There was scarcely a person in England who’s family did not suffer at the hands of the German military during WW2, some 20 years later. The majority of families here were torn apart during that war. Speaking for my family alone, from the age of 19, my mother drove an ambulance trying to save lives and collecting what was left of thousands of human beings throughout the devastating blitz on London. She and my grandmother were injured and almost killed when buried beneath the rubble of a house that was bombed. Many of my family ’slept’ underground in air raid shelters for years during this war. Every day when they emerged from the shelter, my grandmother sent her young son ahead to see if heir house had been bombed and if his father – who refused to leave the house – was still alive. One day he found his father blinded by a German bomb. My father, a soldier during WW2, was twice injured and, years later, died aged 49 from the effects of shrapnel which could not be extracted from his body. Any attacks on Germany during WW2 must be placed in the context of the appalling devastation which the German military inflicted on millions of innocent people at that time.

Like millions of others here, my family’s appalling experience underlies my opposition to all military aggression and to all but unavoidable wars such as WW2.

What particularly sickens me about wars is that it is almost always ordinary innocents who suffer while the warmongers themselves barely feel a twinge of their pain in any shape or form.

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I live in Thailand and have lived through a most pathetic coup to oust a corrupt leader. I read with great interest posts from Iranians who oppose their Islamic dictatorship. The Thais are the most apathetic people I have ever known. In 3 years living here, I’ve had 1 conversation about politics with a Thai person. THEY DON’T CARE.

I agree wholeheartedly with Boris. Iranians WILL develop nuclear weapons at some point in time, as has North Korea, however reading the posts here, and with conversations I have had with Iranians they don’t support their leaders.

The apathy of the Thai people frustrates me here. Why don’t the Iranians DO SOMETHING about their leadership??? It’s got to be better than the so called “Allies” attempting it.

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Whether Boris is right or wrong about this matter is not quite the point – I find it extrememely refreshing that at least one of our awful politicians is willing to contribute honest and honourable views. I believe this is why we respect you Mr Johnson. Become Prime Minister for goodness’ sake!

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Joseph,

It took two cups of tea and a cigarette break in the middle but I read your post.

I’m not too sure about your idea that the US were pro-Nazi prior to Pearl Harbour. I believe the US had provided assistance to the UK before Pearl Harbour.

In terms of the US and UK not opening up the Western front until the Soviets were winning, this was probably the major cause of the cold war. The USA did Western Europe a huge favour stopping Stalin swallowing it up though. Sure, this was in US national interest, but I think you’ll find Stalin was resented in much of Eastern Europe after the Iron Curtain went up.

I too worry about the influence of the evangelical and other fundamentalist Christian groups in US foreign policy. Personally I see organised religion as an invention of mankind, I believe it has been responsible for more human suffering than good over the centuries.

I have a suspicion that the rulers of the US aren’t actually religious types themselves, but having a deeply religious population suits them. I think religion blinkers people from other points of view, and is the cause of most of the ignorance in the world.

’steven are you living in moon? your people are also racist , they actually kill eachother still in britain and usa as i see , you call black people “negro” still. and you’r gloring culture still is proud of KKK’ (Arian Amiri)

It is true some people in the UK are racist. But I’ve never heard the expression ‘negro’ used. Our friends from the Caribbean have settled well over here. The KKK is a Southern US thing, the British Equivelent would be the National Front. However I’ve never met anyone that glorifies them.

Racial and religious intolerance does exist. Up here in the North I’ve met white people that won’t buy things from Asian shops. At university I’ve met Asian people that will happily speak in Urdu to the Muslim I’m playing pool with but refuse to even make eye-contact with me. According to my Muslim friends, some of their friends don’t speak to white people because they think we are ‘unclean’.

Overall though I think the UK is about the least racist place you will find, it’s only a tiny ignorant minority that actually boycott or attack each other. Not only do we have laws making discrimination illegal on racial or religious grounds, we actually enforce them. We don’t persecute people because of their sexual preference over here in Europe either, unlike some Islamic states that still consider it a capital crime.

‘I doubt that 26-year-old English Steven_L has even been to France’ (Idlex)

I’ve been twice, with school, once when I was 9 and once skiing when I was 12.

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Well joseph
you’r comment is a fact , but maybe i can put it that way. Again the Iranian point of view to the world who might live in Tehran or any other major part of Iran is tottaly different then an Iraqi or an arab.I occasionly visit tehran atleat once a two year , i’m seeing white iranian people and brown iranians who if someone talk about their skin’s appearnce differences ,would absolutly make no sence to them. In America I’m living as a white rock fan ,and every single persian I see is living in it’s own mixture of persian and western life. Again Persians are no like Turkish people who kiss american and british ass , and neither like arabs to obey the pure and hard islamic rules, we live in our own (having persian ancient life and a western way of live)and that’s why I pushing you to seperate persians from the other middle easterns. i’ve never seen an iranian anywhere in globe to say i dont talk to white people , but maybe we see thousnd of arabs to say such a thing .Yes true maybe in saudi arabia they wouldnt allow christians to live. but please dont make us all the same. We have some problems with USA because we r feeling they would like to assault us , but it doesnt mean because of what we feel we have to attack them but we can make sure we are ready incase of a war.

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As an iranian, i hate islam. what has it given to us? dont you want to tell me go and study about it
The only character Islam supporters accept in all the 1400 years history of islam is Mohammad prophet and nobody eles( the person that the longest distance in his mind was China to learn sience. this happend even when he went to visit the God in heaven. I wonder how He couldn’t see from up there that earth is sphere or the longest distance to learn from Saudi Arebia is not china but America)

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‘Iran has the second largest Jewish population in the Middle East (Israel First)’ (Hamed)

Only because all the Arab nations exiled their Jewish populations after they lost the 1948 war (which Iran, under the leadership of the Shah didn’t join in).
At Steve L.
if it was so as you mean, why they didnt go to e.g russia or somewhere else, why they didnt leave Iran after Shah.. they are still there…
And……….
thanks to Boris, but one should I tell you and it is…
this is a game long time ago before attacking Afghanistan and Iraq just to take best parts of our country , Khuzestan, and Persian Gulf,
As you know Boris this game is designed by britian and american Politician,in this game Bush and Bliar play as forward players and other europeans as the rest of ..
while kissing your asses the fans are the …Arabian countries who are waiting for their portion of the results of this game,
…yeah governing southern parts of Iran.. those parts you are going to take for them….surely they will pay for the bill…..
but Iran will stay Iran as it is.However, our goverment is as crazzy as yours.
Regrads

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Sorry, there is one mistake in my last post I have to correct it.
I meant this game was designed long time ago, before attacking Iraq and Afghanistan.
the main aim is Iran, specificly Khuzestan and Persian Gulf not presenting the poeple in Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan democracy. Democracy cant be presented as a gift.Unfortunaely, the poeple in eurpean countries and in USA believe whatever they hear from media or the governers. They didnt yet understand all their politicians(as ours) more or less are lier and murderers.All of them without exeption.

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‘if it was so as you mean, why they didnt go to e.g russia or somewhere else, why they didnt leave Iran after Shah.. they are still there…’ (Bita)

Because Iran hasn’t exiled them like Iraq and other Arab countries did after the 1948 war.

The point was that Iran only has a higher number of Jewish people than any of the Arab states because the Arab states kicked them all out after they lost the 1948 war to Israel.

Before the 1948 war there were about 100,000 Jews in Iraq.

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Dear Boris

Most of what you say is sensible, but in this instance you have just got it horribly wrong.

It just may be too late for Israel to hit back at Iran, if a mad Mullah in Iran went beserk and cleared them off the map. There would be another Holocust with 6 million further Jews dead.

Boris I will tell you a little secret, Israel will not permit the Iranians to arm themselves with nuclear weapons. Period.!!!!

Israel may lose a few F16 and special forces, but its worth her while, losing 200 men and maybe as many as 20 jets, then be held over a barrel or blackmailed over 6 million Jews.

Regards.

Andrew Kaye

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The best thing that could happen to this planet would be having ‘Israel’ crossed off it and ‘Palestine’ written over the top in crayon.

Period.

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I’ve never quite understood the rationale whereby countries like the USA and UK 9and others) see fit to dictate who is allowed to develop nuclear capability.

It’s not as if these countries occupy some higher moral ground is it? I mean, invading countries like Iraq on clearly trumped up charges of WMDs and treating people the way they do at Al-Gharib and Guantanamo doesn’t quite cut the higher-moral-ground mustard, does it?

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idlex said:
October 15, 2006 12:35 AM
“The whole notion that Palestinian suicide bombers are crazed religious fanatic is mistaken. That they resort to this simply reflects the condition in which they live, and provides a measure of their desperation. If Israelis were suffering the same, they’d do the same themselves. Indeed, at Masada, in 73AD, the Jewish defenders all committed suicide rather than surrender. I’m sure that if they’d thought of a way of taking a few Romans with them, they would have.”

It’s true that the defenders of Masada committed suicide rather than surrender – but nowhere in Jewish religious texts is this praised. Suicide is forbidden under Jewish religious law.
Furthermore, over the 2000 years since the Destruction of the 2nd Temple and the Exile, the Jews suffered far more than the Palestinians ever had. Nobody has tried to physically exterminate the Palestinian People. On the other hand, besides the Nazi Holocaust, many attempts were made to completely eradicate the Jewish People. One of the earliest was by the Persian (Iranian) Grand Vizir Haman. (Read the Book of Esther. Someone should remind the present Iranian Grand Vizir of the fate of his predecessor who tried to wipe out the Jewish People.)
However, I digress. My point is, that the Jewish People had far more reason for desperation than the Palestinians (who had a chance for an independent state as early as 1947, but blew it, by rejecting the UN Partition Plan) – and yet you won’t find any reports of Jewish suicide bombers anywhere along the long, long line of history. And you certainly won’t read of Jewish terrorists going and murdering little children, or civilians in other countries, just because those countries supposedly supported the enemies of the Jews. (And don’t go throwing up the Lebanon War at me, because I am not talking about a state of war, when civilians get caught in the crossfire).

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The Isrealis bombed Saddam’s Iranian nuclear cradle at Osirak in 1986?

I think a different despotic megalomaniac was faffing about in Iran at the time.

Thank any, and every god, that the Isrealis have decided NOT to bomb Iraqi facilities within the borders of Iran.

So, good read but 6/10. See me.

Israelis would fly to Iran and repeat their magnificent success at Osirak in 1986, where they bombed Saddam’s nuclear capacity in its desert cradle.
nuclear

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“Nobody has tried to physically exterminate the Palestinian People.”

Errmm, haven’t you forgotten the Israelis?

So your proposition Simone is that suicide bombing is wrong because a religious text says so but dropping cluster bombs on civilian areas and schools is pretty much okay?

Launching missiles at civilian cars from helicopters containing women and children is self evidently the action of a peaceloving and timorous nation and so much nicer than that nasty Arabian suicide bombing.

“And you certainly won’t read of Jewish terrorists going and murdering little children”

You would in the 1930s and 40s when Irgun and the Stern gang were on the MI5 terrorist list. The IDF have also cheerfully killed nearly eight hundred Palestinian children in the occupied territories (NOT Lebanon) over the past six years. Nice going boys.

The reason there is no peace in this region is simply because hard line Zionists will not allow it. They first have to create small wars on their borders to give themselves justification for grabbing yet more land to re-create historic ‘Greater Israel’. What else can one think about a country THAT WON’T EVEN RECOGNISE IT’S OWN BORDERS! (by all means check up on this outrageous statement)

The call to ask Hamas to recognise Israel is ludicrous in the circumstances. How can they? Isreal haven’t said where their country ends or starts. By recognising Isreal they would be giving legitimacy to the regime to annex even MORE Palestinian territory.

They are scum (Right wing Israelis, not Jews) and little, if any, different from the Nazi perpetrators of the Holocaust. I look forward to the day they commit nuclear suicide as Golda Meir suggested (in interview) they would in the event of Arab supremacy in the region.

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In case it’s not clear enough Simone, the missiles I spoke of were not launched anywhere near Lebanon, only in persecution of the Palestinian people.

[Ed : deleted]

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I actually agree with you Boris, but there is one major sticking point. The logic of MAD may still apply to states, but probably doesn’t apply to non-state actors like Al Qaeda. The more nuclear states there are the more opportunities they have to buy nuclear material from somewhere. And no, we can’t just extend MAD to the state that sells them the stuff, because we might not know who it was.

Perhaps the best thing would be to give strong assurances (and other treats) to these regimes in exchange for a disavowal of the processing of WMDs (and UN inspections). After all, if the only reason they want them is to protect themselves from the West then they might go for guarantees of their safety.

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The only way to stop rogue states disseminating nuclear material to terrorists is to do what Bush did with Pakistan after 9/11.

i.e. Say ‘join the war on terror or we’ll scrap your nukes’.

The Ayatollahs in Iran don’t seem as pliable as Gen. Musharref though.

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Toxy (or should that read “Toxic”?) said:
October 18, 2006 7:01 AM | permalink

“Nobody has tried to physically exterminate the Palestinian People.”

Errmm, haven’t you forgotten the Israelis?

No. I haven’t. We (yes, I am Israeli) have never tried to do anything like the Nazis did, there are no extermination camps, no gas chambers and no attempt to physically eradicate them as a people. The Nazis, on the other hand, attempted to wipe out every last Jew on earth. No country was willing to give refuge to the huge numbers of desperate Jewish refugees (who, BTW, did not resort to suicide bombing!)and, in the absence of a State of their own, a refuge, 6 million were slaughtered.

So your proposition Simone is that suicide bombing is wrong because a religious text says so but dropping cluster bombs on civilian areas and schools is pretty much okay?

You are confusing collateral damage with deliberate attempts to kill women and children. The Palestinian terrorists choose women and children as their primary targets.Furthermore, Hizbollah deliberately placed their rocket launchers and weapons stores in civilian areas, precisely to put Israel in the position of being forced to choose between risking civilian lives and leaving the Hizbollah arsenal untouched. At least the Israel Air Force dropped leaflets a sufficient time before the air-raids, warning civilians to evacuate the area, (a mistake, in my opinion, because the element of surprise was thereby lost and the Hizbollah had time to move their weapons to safety).

Launching missiles at civilian cars from helicopters containing women and children is self evidently the action of a peaceloving and timorous nation and so much nicer than that nasty Arabian suicide bombing.

Er – helicopters containing women and children???

“And you certainly won’t read of Jewish terrorists going and murdering little children”

You would in the 1930s and 40s when Irgun and the Stern gang were on the MI5 terrorist list. The IDF have also cheerfully killed nearly eight hundred Palestinian children in the occupied territories (NOT Lebanon) over the past six years. Nice going boys.

The Irgun Zvai Leumi and Lehi certainly regarded Britain as an occupying power. They did not, however, make a practice of deliberately murdering British women and children, either in the Land of Israel, or in the UK. And while the IDF has unfortunately, killed some Palestinian children, accidentally, it was most definitely not cheerfully. BTW, do you count, amongst the “children”, Palestinian minors who were engaged in terrorist activity against Israeli soldiers and/or civilians?

The reason there is no peace in this region is simply because hard line Zionists will not allow it.

No, it’s because for years, the Arabs refused to negotiate. It was the Arabs who rejected the 1947 UN Partition Plan, not Israel.

a country THAT WON’T EVEN RECOGNISE IT’S OWN BORDERS! (by all means check up on this outrageous statement)

If you mean what I think you mean, this was to give a free hand to the Israeli Government TO CEDE TERRITORY in the event of a peace treaty.

The call to ask Hamas to recognise Israel is ludicrous in the circumstances. How can they? Isreal haven’t said where their country ends or starts. By recognising Isreal they would be giving legitimacy to the regime to annex even MORE Palestinian territory.

Hamas has declared repeatedly that they will never recognize Israel in ANY borders. Hamas is an extremist Islamic organization which espouses the extremist Islamic doctrine by which any land that was EVER under Islamic rule (and therefore, part of “Dar el-Islam”, the Abode of Islam”) is part of the Waqf or consecrated trust of the Islamic nation and therefore cannot ever be ceded to “the Infidel”.

Israelis are the lowest form of human life on this planet. Fortunately their days are numbered
The best thing that could happen to this planet would be having ‘Israel’ crossed off it and ‘Palestine’ written over the top in crayon.

And what then is to become of the 5 million Jews living here? Or do you propose to add us to the 6 million murdered by the Nazis, while the so-called “Free World” stood by? Do we not also have a right to a land of our own? Or is that a right to be enjoyed only by the Palestinians?
Well, answer me, Toxic Waste. Let’s see you in your true colours…

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