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This is both painful to ordinary people but worse, unnecesarily painful.

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I disagree! Bush snr and Clintons disasterous policy of bringing Iraq to its knees through 10 years of sanctions and bombing sortie’s left Bush jnr little or no alternative but regime change.

Iran was becoming too powerful thanks to Putin’s decision to start re-arming the Ayatollahs and put them on a sophisticated nuclear program.

If we have just left Iraq to rot Iran may have sponsored a shiite uprising. If we had lifted the sanctions Saddam would have been so mad with us after we had spent years bombing him that he would never have come to heel.

In retrospect Clinton shouldn’t have sanctioned Iraq, he should have armed them again on the proviso that if they attack Israel, Kuwait or Saudi Arabia Baghdad gets severely bombed.

If Iraq does descend into civil war now who do we support? The Iranian sponsored shiites who want an Islamic theocracy? Or the Syrian sponsored Ba’athist Sunni’s who want separation of church and state?

We’ll probably end up helping out the Sunni Ba’athists (covertly of course), back to square one, and all the result of 15 years of bad foreign policy, not just the last 3 years.

Who’s benefitted? Iran and the other gulf states, no-one else.

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It may simply be that, as one grows older, one tends to hold more settled opinions, and has perhaps also learned how to express them, and has encountered many differing ones.

I spent most of my youth in a state of confusion. And, looking back, I think that fairly well describes most of the people I knew. We were all rather confused.

But, around the age of 30 or so, the mist somehow began to lift a little. I think far more clearly now than I did back then.

But no way clearly enough, of course.

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Particularly if they personally impact upon oneself, as did your lost parking space. Then it all starts getting personal.

In some ways, it might be said that all discussions are either about private or public matters. To the degree that they are matters of public interest, we generally adopt a detached and even philosophical attitude. And to the degree that they are matters of private concern, we are engaged and enraged.

Guys – this thread started out with an apparently juicy attack on the government’s gerrymandering. (Ossie)

These threads are conversational, Ossie. Boris’ role, I sometimes think, is that of a football referee, who hands the ball to one team, and blows the whistle to start the game. What happens after that is anybody’s guess.

The same is true of ordinary everyday conversation. I’ve never known any conversation end up anywhere near where it started.

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Well said that Idlex !It is often the little things that are in there way the most telling .
I bumbled along for many years feeling alienated from most of my trendy London chums because I am and always have been a main stream Conservative. However I didn`t do anything about it until the Coucil took my parking space away. I would love to tell the story (another time)
Two years later I would say I am probably the best known activist in the area. As I said to my brother . Isn`t it strange one minute I`m fuming about the Parking scam the next you find yourself thinking `….and while we`re at it what exactly are we doing in Europe because I`ve had enough!!`

To pretend that `World Peace `matters more than my childrens schools is exactly the sort of humbug and cant I cannot abide . Unfortunately , in my house, I decide on who should run the country and my wife decides where our children will go to school.

( Old one I know)

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What archives?

And it’s simply not true that virtually every thread devolves into an endless argument about smoking. If you don’t believe me, check the archives.

If the issue regularly arises, it is simply because there is real social division about the matter, with strong feelings on both sides.

Such disagreements fuel discussion. Where all are agreed on some matter, there is little or nothing to discuss. If we aren’t all discussing the Iraq war, as Ossie seems to think we should be, it is probably because we mostly agree that it is a foolish, tragic, and quite possibly disastrous enterprise.

Although, no doubt, someone will promptly disagree.

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There are plenty of forums, and plenty of posts right here, that relate to your point. Find them. (I’m only sparing the smokers because I’ve given them this sort of lecture several times).

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