What’s the point?

Like BJ, you choose how you deal with the situation and you move on. And, you try to abide by the “Law of the Land”.

Also, I found the article amd comments on Shabina Begum dress vs the school’s dress code very interesting -
opinions, opinions etc. Vanity of vanities – is it all vanity? Or is it just a figuration of my imagination?

I believe in “moderation”, whatever that’s worth?

Thanks for the “freedom” that a few of us have.

Respect to all!

Bill Fordham
North Las Vegas, NV

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Better be careful, Boris, or the U.S. could do an Al Capone to you!

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Perhaps not, perhaps Boris’s article had a such a profound effect on Amercian ex-pats that they were queuing in drones to renounce their citizenship.

Well whatever they were doing the queue was moving awfully slow, therefore if you do decide to become a bona fide Brit Boris I’d make sure you take the morning off work and turn up 8am on the dot to start queuing.

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It looks like Boris is not going to have his citizenship automatically revoked, as his holding a US passport alone counts as essentially declaring an interest in retaining that citizenship. He’s going to have to do the paperwork.

From the same US government site:

because there is no administrative presumption that U.S. citizens who hold policy-level positions in foreign governments necessarily intend to retain their U.S. citizenship, efforts are made to fully adjudicate such cases to determine the individual’s intent. (Service in a country’s legislative body is considered by the Department to be a policy level position.)

An Attorney General’s opinion of 1969 states that service in an important foreign political position constitutes highly persuasive evidence of intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship. In some cases, it would appear that holding a foreign office may be incompatible with maintaining U.S. citizenship (e.g. if the position necessarily entails immunity from U.S. law). The Department does not normally consider such service alone, as sufficient to sustain the burden of showing loss of U.S. citizenship by a preponderance of the evidence when the individual has explicitly expressed a contrary intent. This is particularly true when the individual continues to file U.S. tax returns, enters and leaves the U.S. on a U.S. passport, maintains close ties in the U.S. (such as maintaining a residence in the U.S.), and takes other actions consistent with an intent to retain U.S. citizenship notwithstanding the assumption of a foreign government position.

And here’s the link for the de-Americanization procedure. I hope it’s not too painful.

Do I think he’ll actually bother to do this? Not when he can get another article out of it if this sort of confrontation happens again. Did he expense the ticket to Madrid? I would.

Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship

A. THE IMMIGRATION & NATIONALITY ACT

Section 349(a)(5) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) is the section of law that governs the ability of a United States citizen to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship. That section of law provides for the loss of nationality by voluntarily performing the following act with the intent to relinquish his or her U.S. nationality:

“(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state , in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State” (emphasis added).

B. ELEMENTS OF RENUNCIATION

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
sign an oath of renunciation

Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below.

C. REQUIREMENT – RENOUNCE ALL RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES

In the recent case of Colon v. U.S. Department of State , 2 F.Supp.2d 43 (1998), plaintiff was a United States citizen and resident of Puerto Rico, who executed an oath of renunciation before a consular officer at the U.S. Embassy in Santo Domingo. The U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia rejected Colon’s petition for a writ of mandamus directing the Secretary of State to approve a Certificate of Loss of Nationality in the case because the plaintiff wanted to retain one of the primary benefits of U.S. citizenship while claiming he was not a U.S. citizen. The Court described the plaintiff as a person, “claiming to renounce all rights and privileges of United States citizenship, [while] Plaintiff wants to continue to exercise one of the fundamental rights of citizenship, namely to travel freely throughout the world and when he wants to, return and reside in the United States.” See also Jose Fufi Santori v. United States of America , 1994 U.S. App. LEXIS 16299 (1994) for a similar case.

A person who wants to renounce U.S. citizenship cannot decide to retain some of the privileges of citizenship, as this would be logically inconsistent with the concept of citizenship. Thus, such a person can be said to lack a full understanding of renouncing citizenship and/or lack the necessary intent to renounce citizenship, and the Department of State will not approve a loss of citizenship in such instances.

D. DUAL NATIONALITY / STATELESSNESS

Persons intending to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware that, unless they already possess a foreign nationality, they may be rendered stateless and, thus, lack the protection of any government. They may also have difficulty traveling as they may not be entitled to a passport from any country. Even if they were not stateless, they would still be required to obtain a visa to travel to the United States, or show that they are eligible for admission pursuant to the terms of the Visa Waiver Pilot Program (VWPP). If found ineligible for a visa or the VWPP to come to the U.S., a renunciant, under certain circumstances, could be permanently barred from entering the United States. Nonetheless, renunciation of U.S. citizenship may not prevent a foreign country from deporting that individual back to the United States in some non-citizen status.

E. TAX & MILITARY OBLIGATIONS /NO ESCAPE FROM PROSECUTION

Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information). In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship will not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States.

F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship. United States common law establishes an arbitrary limit of age fourteen under which a child’s understanding must be established by substantial evidence.

G. IRREVOCABILITY OF RENUNCIATION

Finally, those contemplating a renunciation of U.S. citizenship should understand that the act is irrevocable, except as provided in section 351 of the INA, and cannot be canceled or set aside absent successful administrative or judicial appeal. (Section 351(b) of the INA provides that an applicant who renounced his or her U.S. citizenship before the age of eighteen can have that citizenship reinstated if he or she makes that desire known to the Department of State within six months after attaining the age of eighteen. See also Title 22, Code of Federal Regulations, section 50.20).

Renunciation is the most unequivocal way in which a person can manifest an intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Please consider the effects of renouncing U.S. citizenship, described above, before taking this serious and irrevocable action. If you have any further questions regarding this matter, please contact the Director, Office of Policy Review & Interagency Liaison, Bureau of Consular Affairs, U.S. Department of State, Washington, DC 20520.

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Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States.

This is from the same government site that you listed, although a different page.

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The official US State Department policy on dual citizenship today is that the United States does not favor it as a matter of policy because of various problems they feel it may cause, but the existence of dual citizenship is recognized in individual cases. That is, if you ask them if you ought to become a dual citizen, they will recommend against doing it; but if you tell them you are a dual citizen, they’ll usually say it’s OK.

which isn’t quite as cut and dried as it is implied. As well, the fellow is quite educated, with advanced degrees in music and math, but none in law, politics, or government.

I have argued with American border guards. And I had the option of presenting the documents they requested or turning back, just exactly the same as Boris did.

The question at bottom here is, what does it actually take for a British citizen to pass through an air terminal in the United States? Obviously, that depends on what the staff demand. And thanks to new Homeland Security regulations, they are entitled to demand almost anything, regardless of existing legal protections.

US immigration laws do not require me to carry a passport when I enter the US, but every single time I’ve done that since 2001 I have had to present one or go home.

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And as far as being a US citizen entering the US without a valid US passport*, while it is required, there is no longer a penalty for not doing so:
http://www.richw.org/dualcit/law.html#Passport

Going back to Boris’ case, as a strictly legal matter, he may** be a US citizen under US law, and may, therefore, be required to enter the US with a valid US passport. However, in practice, he has a valid British passport and is entitled to pass through Houston airport on his way to Mexico using that. He didn’t claim US citizenship, and didn’t need it to pass through, so the US Immigration service wouldn’t have cared where he was born. From my reading, they appear to be much more likely to deny that someone is a citizen, rather than insist that they are. The airline employee who stopped Boris did so on his own authority, not the authority of the US Immigration service.

* entering from outside most of North America, as you only need proof of citizenship (birth certificate and drivers license/photo ID) to enter from Bermuda, Panama, Mexico, Canada and most Caribbean nations, thought this is in the process of changing.

** Boris may no longer be a US citizen, and not entitled to a US passport, as he is employed by a foreign government at a policy level, which is “potentially expatriating” if done with the intention of relinquishing US citizenship. See point 4 on http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

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