Have you read the proposal for a way of having Universities rewarded for being goood and have increased income without having tuition fees that was reported in the Times Higher a while a go?

I think it’s at http://www.policyinstitute.info

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Boris raise the standard of bring back the HMIs!

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Perhaps, as you say, the profit-making businesses that want graduates should cough up? But, of course that potentially revokes the wider social dimmension of education, prioritising exchange-value over social use: there would be consequences for the type of ‘service’ given to students.

The use of the term customer has crept into the public sector and has taken hold; perhaps you like it? But at what point do you draw the line? Is a child on the Social Services Protection Register really a customer? Apparently so.

The student as a customer shifts the meaning of education quite dramatically, too. A student could still expect a good education without those expectations being based on a word that bounds out the more productive questions about what education is for, and how quality in terms of learning, rather than grade-getting is achieved. Think it through in terms of how the discursive interpellates us.

I am not sure what you mean by perfomance? Lecturers are measured on performance – the research that brings in funding. For many academics that research is crammed in during vacation time or at weekends.

However, I do agree with your point about staff:student ratios. This, in my experience, is endemic in an overloaded HE system. I believe students should receive a decent education and, for me, there is a huge problem of crowded lectures and lack of proper contact time.

Good luck with your graduation.

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But I agree with your point on local pay.

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Sm stated that apparently we students are not consumers and allegedly we don’t pay until after graduation. That maybe true for the new set of students about to come through, but I certainly paid upfront each year!! I didn’t fund my fees with a student loan and I know many students (particularly overseas, who have to pay a lot more in than home students) didn’t either. So I completely reject the claim that we are not “consumers” or “customers.” Indeed (and I not completely sure on the legal status) but students can sue their university for breach of contract and/or false adverting under the Trade descriptions act. I’m aware of one such case.

Jojo – I think the normal customer relationship does apply. I understand your reasoning that a student may not necessarily achieve the grade they desired or a degree classification at all, however that does not detract from fact that students are clearly paying for a service. If you take buying a holiday package for example, you can’t complain about having a poor holiday to the travel agent (or even not having one) if you don’t make the effort to travel to the airport or (once there) make an effort to do the things you wanted. By the same token universities (like the travel companies) are providing a service which the consumer paid for, and it’s up to the individual (not the service provider in either example) to make the most of it. I agree with Jack’s point “Students pay for the right to earn a degree not for a degree” but I would add they also pay for the right to receive a certain level and quality of service.

I can relate to jaq point. At my uni we had a situation where some students were left with no dissertation guidance (only two months into the first term) because a lecturer had left and was never replaced. We had exam questions with obvious grammatical and spelling mistakes. Exams were discounted because the university failed to follow its own examination procedures. Overcrowded lecture theatres, to the point of which students were told to leave for safety reasons. Tutorials consisting ONLY of student presentations in some subjects. Contradictory information issued regarding revision for exams and no feedback for many months due to the marking boycott. That’s not the service I paid for!!

My view is that lecturers pay should be set locally. Obviously attracting staff in some areas will be harder than others and the pay should reflect this. It ludicrous to put all lecturers on the same pay system across the whole country and across all subjects. I don’t think this new pay agreement will benefit students. What is needed is less student to lecturer ratios and I can’t see how this will help particularly since now there will be less money in the pot. If you are to believe research by many academics; money doesn’t act as much of a motivator anyway and hence I can’t see lecturers performing any better as a result of improved pay. I think more funding for university needs to come from the private sector, after all they are ones who wanting highly trained graduates to work for them.

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You are quite right about holding lecturers to account if they are consistently not up to the job. In FE we worked with a bloke who was a disaster. It was in his, our and students interests when we finally got rid of him after three (!) years.

You may think that a strange comment from a trade unionist but I recall discussing the issue with friends in the Transport and General Workers Union. They cited the example of bus drivers who consistently turn up late did not get backing from the union because (a) they weren’t pulling their weight and (b) for the union to object to this would be to make it more difficult for reasonable issues to be raised.

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That was the point Jaq, I wasn’t talking about foreign students, but the same theories of supply and demand apply. The more freedom HE is afforded the more these market forces will apply.

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This had no impact on the local community.

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It is not the institution that is entitled to the funding, the individual is entitled to take his or her funding to the institution that can offer the opportunity that the individual is willing to give up three or more years of their time for.

If institutions cannot compete effectively with their competition they will attract less individuals and less funding. Institutions that over-exaggerate the opportunities they are offering will dissappoint more individuals and will get a bad reputation.

It is simple quality management theory. Those institutions who are going as far as refusing to even set exam papers will be doing untold damage to their reputations. It’s not so bad for the lecturers who can move on if needs be, but it is the local communities that suffer in the long run surely?

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