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	<title>Comments on: ID Cards</title>
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		<title>By: Phil Booth</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/10/19/id-cards-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6135</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Booth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=206#comment-6135</guid>
		<description>NEW &#039;refuse&#039; pledge now at:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;

The Government have not yet passed the Bill as it stands. Compulsion via the link with the passport or other designated documents is by no means guaranteed to make it into the law (if this Bill does become law).

On a practical point: if you want to buy yourself 10 years freedom to travel while you continue to oppose this piece of New Labour / Home Office cyber-Stalinism, then renew your passport NOW. As an added bonus, it&#039;ll save you at least �50 - once the ID card scheme kicks in, the price of a passport (with compulsory ID card) will rise to �93+.

If you&#039;re still not comfortable refusing to register, then for God&#039;s sake support those who will - sign the resist pledge. And join / make a donation to NO2ID, if you haven&#039;t already.

NO2ID have, from the outset, opposed ID cards and the National Identity Register. If the Government do win the Parliamentary battle (and with a 66 majority, it&#039;s quite telling that they&#039;re cutting this so fine), then there are all sorts of other things that need to be done - for instance, challenging the new law in the courts. The very fact that you _might_ have to &#039;give up your passport&#039; because you refuse to be registered for an ID card is a principle that cuts to the very heart of English (and Scottish) law, Royal prerogative, and a whole host of ECHR/HRA principles.

Get active locally, and tell people about the Register - and the 50 categories of information stored on it, including the &#039;audit trail&#039; of every time and place you use the card, building up a detailed picture of your public and private life - and the NIRN that, when used by other bodies (e.g. banks, insurance companies, NHS, private health) in *their* databases, will hand Government (and other identity thieves) the &#039;key&#039; to your life.

We have research, and some polls already show that public opinion drops ANOTHER 20% when people hear about the database.

When 75% or more of the country is against this, the &#039;Poll Tax&#039; scenario will be a reality. No matter how crafty the Gov&#039;t have tried to be, their plan has one fatal flaw: it requires 43 million British citizens to report to a processing centre, and line up to be photographed, fingerprinted, iris scanned and submit to a detailed biographic interview. Then *pay* for the priviledge!

I submit that showing the Government NOW (before they&#039;ve even passed the Bill) that there are tens, even hundreds, of thousands who will not comply indicates the millions more out there with whom they will be in conflict, should they proceed. As a form of protest - just considering the media coverage we&#039;ve received on it so far, let alone what the 11,000+ can achieve later on - I consider this to be both practical and effective, and urge you (and Boris!) to join us.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NEW &#8216;refuse&#8217; pledge now at:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2" rel="nofollow">http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse2</a></p>
<p>The Government have not yet passed the Bill as it stands. Compulsion via the link with the passport or other designated documents is by no means guaranteed to make it into the law (if this Bill does become law).</p>
<p>On a practical point: if you want to buy yourself 10 years freedom to travel while you continue to oppose this piece of New Labour / Home Office cyber-Stalinism, then renew your passport NOW. As an added bonus, it&#8217;ll save you at least �50 &#8211; once the ID card scheme kicks in, the price of a passport (with compulsory ID card) will rise to �93+.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re still not comfortable refusing to register, then for God&#8217;s sake support those who will &#8211; sign the resist pledge. And join / make a donation to NO2ID, if you haven&#8217;t already.</p>
<p>NO2ID have, from the outset, opposed ID cards and the National Identity Register. If the Government do win the Parliamentary battle (and with a 66 majority, it&#8217;s quite telling that they&#8217;re cutting this so fine), then there are all sorts of other things that need to be done &#8211; for instance, challenging the new law in the courts. The very fact that you _might_ have to &#8216;give up your passport&#8217; because you refuse to be registered for an ID card is a principle that cuts to the very heart of English (and Scottish) law, Royal prerogative, and a whole host of ECHR/HRA principles.</p>
<p>Get active locally, and tell people about the Register &#8211; and the 50 categories of information stored on it, including the &#8216;audit trail&#8217; of every time and place you use the card, building up a detailed picture of your public and private life &#8211; and the NIRN that, when used by other bodies (e.g. banks, insurance companies, NHS, private health) in *their* databases, will hand Government (and other identity thieves) the &#8216;key&#8217; to your life.</p>
<p>We have research, and some polls already show that public opinion drops ANOTHER 20% when people hear about the database.</p>
<p>When 75% or more of the country is against this, the &#8216;Poll Tax&#8217; scenario will be a reality. No matter how crafty the Gov&#8217;t have tried to be, their plan has one fatal flaw: it requires 43 million British citizens to report to a processing centre, and line up to be photographed, fingerprinted, iris scanned and submit to a detailed biographic interview. Then *pay* for the priviledge!</p>
<p>I submit that showing the Government NOW (before they&#8217;ve even passed the Bill) that there are tens, even hundreds, of thousands who will not comply indicates the millions more out there with whom they will be in conflict, should they proceed. As a form of protest &#8211; just considering the media coverage we&#8217;ve received on it so far, let alone what the 11,000+ can achieve later on &#8211; I consider this to be both practical and effective, and urge you (and Boris!) to join us.</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6135" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6135', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6135-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6135" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6135', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6135-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Simon Holledge at The Skakagrall</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/10/19/id-cards-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6134</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Holledge at The Skakagrall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=206#comment-6134</guid>
		<description>Like everybody here, I am against ID cards and the database, but I haven&#039;t signed the pledge to refuse to register because I am not willing to give up my passport (or my driving licence for that matter).

We need to consider ways of protesting that are practical and effective.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like everybody here, I am against ID cards and the database, but I haven&#8217;t signed the pledge to refuse to register because I am not willing to give up my passport (or my driving licence for that matter).</p>
<p>We need to consider ways of protesting that are practical and effective.</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6134" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6134', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6134-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6134" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6134', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6134-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Lori</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/10/19/id-cards-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6133</link>
		<dc:creator>Lori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=206#comment-6133</guid>
		<description>Refuse pledge (full now):
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;

Resist pledge (still taking signatures):
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pledgebank.com/resist&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pledgebank.com/resist&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.pledgebank.com/resist&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Refuse pledge (full now):<br />
<a href="http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse" rel="nofollow">http://www.pledgebank.com/refuse</a></p>
<p>Resist pledge (still taking signatures):<br />
<a href="http://www.pledgebank.com/resist" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.pledgebank.com/resist" rel="nofollow">http://www.pledgebank.com/resist</a></p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6133" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6133', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6133-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6133" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6133', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6133-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jaq</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/10/19/id-cards-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6132</link>
		<dc:creator>jaq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:29:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=206#comment-6132</guid>
		<description>I agree and that&#039;s all very well until people want to go on holiday. If they link them to the passport, ie. you&#039;ve got to show both to leave the country, then people WILL get them rather than loose thousands on a holiday thay&#039;ve had booked and paid for for months. I don&#039;t know if they will do this but I&#039;ve heard the idea mooted somewhere.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree and that&#8217;s all very well until people want to go on holiday. If they link them to the passport, ie. you&#8217;ve got to show both to leave the country, then people WILL get them rather than loose thousands on a holiday thay&#8217;ve had booked and paid for for months. I don&#8217;t know if they will do this but I&#8217;ve heard the idea mooted somewhere.</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6132" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6132', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6132-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6132" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6132', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6132-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kevin T</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/10/19/id-cards-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6131</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2005 16:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=206#comment-6131</guid>
		<description>Mark, I think you underestimate the strength of public opposition to these cards and overestimate the resolution of this government to do things so unpopular that they could lose an election over them. Other than the Iraq war, I&#039;ve not seen an issue for years which gets people so heated than the ID card debate and whereas there&#039;s very little anyone can physically do about a war taking place thousands of miles away, it&#039;s a pretty simple thing to not pay </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, I think you underestimate the strength of public opposition to these cards and overestimate the resolution of this government to do things so unpopular that they could lose an election over them. Other than the Iraq war, I&#8217;ve not seen an issue for years which gets people so heated than the ID card debate and whereas there&#8217;s very little anyone can physically do about a war taking place thousands of miles away, it&#8217;s a pretty simple thing to not pay</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6131" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6131', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6131-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6131" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6131', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6131-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mark gamon</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/10/19/id-cards-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6130</link>
		<dc:creator>mark gamon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=206#comment-6130</guid>
		<description>I admire Boris for his willingness to state that he&#039;ll never carry a card. I really do. Unfortunately politics is littered with bold statements like this that never came good. I&#039;m very unhappy about ID cards myself (or about the ID database and what it might contain - thank you Simon) but when it comes to the crunch it&#039;ll probably seem pretty stupid going to prison over the issue. Will Boris feel as strongly in five/ten years&#039; time, when the ID card bill is entrenched in law, and we remind him that he swore he&#039;d never carry one (I take it that means the passport too)?

This bill is going through whether we like it or not. I&#039;d like to believe that those of us who oppose it will continue to oppose it, and refuse to carry one. I&#039;d like to believe that Boris and other prominent political figures will remain defiant, even unto facing the wrath of the state. But somehow I don&#039;t quite believe it. Not when the next holiday in Tuscany&#039;s in the offing, and the old passport needs renewing.

I think then (as the government has quite clearly and deviously calculated) we&#039;ll all just think &#039;sod it - everyone else has got one so why should I put my neck on the line?&#039;

Here&#039;s another reason we might not want to resist: because by then the banks and the Inland Revenue will have tied up the connections between identity and personal finance that none of us will be able NOT to carry an ID card: we&#039;ll need them to pay for food.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admire Boris for his willingness to state that he&#8217;ll never carry a card. I really do. Unfortunately politics is littered with bold statements like this that never came good. I&#8217;m very unhappy about ID cards myself (or about the ID database and what it might contain &#8211; thank you Simon) but when it comes to the crunch it&#8217;ll probably seem pretty stupid going to prison over the issue. Will Boris feel as strongly in five/ten years&#8217; time, when the ID card bill is entrenched in law, and we remind him that he swore he&#8217;d never carry one (I take it that means the passport too)?</p>
<p>This bill is going through whether we like it or not. I&#8217;d like to believe that those of us who oppose it will continue to oppose it, and refuse to carry one. I&#8217;d like to believe that Boris and other prominent political figures will remain defiant, even unto facing the wrath of the state. But somehow I don&#8217;t quite believe it. Not when the next holiday in Tuscany&#8217;s in the offing, and the old passport needs renewing.</p>
<p>I think then (as the government has quite clearly and deviously calculated) we&#8217;ll all just think &#8216;sod it &#8211; everyone else has got one so why should I put my neck on the line?&#8217;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s another reason we might not want to resist: because by then the banks and the Inland Revenue will have tied up the connections between identity and personal finance that none of us will be able NOT to carry an ID card: we&#8217;ll need them to pay for food.</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6130" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6130', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6130-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6130" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6130', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6130-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jaq</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/10/19/id-cards-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6129</link>
		<dc:creator>jaq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:16:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=206#comment-6129</guid>
		<description>Anyone see MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas&#039;s speech in the house today? I found it very interesting. It was in the debate about the Thanmes gateway regeneration project. Jon highlighted the fact that his constituency contains a high proportion of souls that the government doesn&#039;t officially recognise as they are illegal immigrants or migrant workers. How&#039;s that going to work with ID cards then? It comes back to my point of those who are honest English residents pay and those who aren&#039;t don&#039;t have to. To achieve what exactly? An end to terror as long as said terrorist officially exist?

Put me in the house Boris, I&#039;ll tell git face just how naive and stupid he is in words of one syllable!

(said jaq, softly and delicately)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone see MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas&#8217;s speech in the house today? I found it very interesting. It was in the debate about the Thanmes gateway regeneration project. Jon highlighted the fact that his constituency contains a high proportion of souls that the government doesn&#8217;t officially recognise as they are illegal immigrants or migrant workers. How&#8217;s that going to work with ID cards then? It comes back to my point of those who are honest English residents pay and those who aren&#8217;t don&#8217;t have to. To achieve what exactly? An end to terror as long as said terrorist officially exist?</p>
<p>Put me in the house Boris, I&#8217;ll tell git face just how naive and stupid he is in words of one syllable!</p>
<p>(said jaq, softly and delicately)</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-6129" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6129', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-6129-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-6129" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('6129', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-6129-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Neil of the elk</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/10/19/id-cards-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6128</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil of the elk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=206#comment-6128</guid>
		<description>Well said boris
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said boris</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Ramsey</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/10/19/id-cards-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6127</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Ramsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=206#comment-6127</guid>
		<description>Psimon

&quot;If we&#039;re NOT headed for a fascist dictatorship, why did so many people get arrested under the prevention of terrorism act whilst PEACEFULLY protesting near the Labour Party Conferlecture?&quot;

This may be due to

(a) the report being exaggerated
(b) the police going beyond their brief on this occasion possibly because they do not know if they are coming or going
(c) ..................

So it is perfectly possible for this to happen and not be heading towards a fascist dictatorship. Condemning unwarranted authoritarian spats (and there are warranted ones) is the duty of every liberal. Confusing such tendencies with incipient fascism is to make a serious mistake. By clouding the issue you make it more difficult to clearly show what we are opposing at present. They used to call Mrs. Thatcher a fascist. I can&#039;t say I ever liked the old dear but fascist she was not. Don&#039;t forget that there are people affiliated to real fascist organisations like the SWP, Communist Party and various Islamacist organisations who would like to bring down the government ostensibly on civil liberties issues but in practice to establish their own unique dystopia, where it is redundant to call anything authoritarian.

:)


I get the Times several times a week and I don&#039;t get the impression that it follows the government line. It&#039;s not packed with the Polly Toynbee types who loath being British, although there are a couple.

Yes, it is rather sickening to hear the BBC journalists appearing to support the government rather than doing their token bit of not being Islington dinner party goers, more so than the usual PC stuff they serve up. But since they seem to think that being &#039;balanced&#039; means being sycophantic to the governement for five minutes before going back to the usual sycophancy to the PC brigade. No I haven&#039;t suddenly supported the governement on ID cards. I just think that the desperate &#039;ant-ism&#039; that seems to pass for critical thinking in some places is no way to solve the problems we face.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Psimon</p>
<p>&#8220;If we&#8217;re NOT headed for a fascist dictatorship, why did so many people get arrested under the prevention of terrorism act whilst PEACEFULLY protesting near the Labour Party Conferlecture?&#8221;</p>
<p>This may be due to</p>
<p>(a) the report being exaggerated<br />
(b) the police going beyond their brief on this occasion possibly because they do not know if they are coming or going<br />
(c) &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>So it is perfectly possible for this to happen and not be heading towards a fascist dictatorship. Condemning unwarranted authoritarian spats (and there are warranted ones) is the duty of every liberal. Confusing such tendencies with incipient fascism is to make a serious mistake. By clouding the issue you make it more difficult to clearly show what we are opposing at present. They used to call Mrs. Thatcher a fascist. I can&#8217;t say I ever liked the old dear but fascist she was not. Don&#8217;t forget that there are people affiliated to real fascist organisations like the SWP, Communist Party and various Islamacist organisations who would like to bring down the government ostensibly on civil liberties issues but in practice to establish their own unique dystopia, where it is redundant to call anything authoritarian.<br />
 <img src='http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I get the Times several times a week and I don&#8217;t get the impression that it follows the government line. It&#8217;s not packed with the Polly Toynbee types who loath being British, although there are a couple.</p>
<p>Yes, it is rather sickening to hear the BBC journalists appearing to support the government rather than doing their token bit of not being Islington dinner party goers, more so than the usual PC stuff they serve up. But since they seem to think that being &#8216;balanced&#8217; means being sycophantic to the governement for five minutes before going back to the usual sycophancy to the PC brigade. No I haven&#8217;t suddenly supported the governement on ID cards. I just think that the desperate &#8216;ant-ism&#8217; that seems to pass for critical thinking in some places is no way to solve the problems we face.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin T</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/10/19/id-cards-2/comment-page-1/#comment-6126</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=206#comment-6126</guid>
		<description>Psimon - because Labour are heavy handed control freaks. They&#039;re not Nazis and it&#039;s countrproductive to compare them to Nazis and invoke George Orwell as so many people fighting ID cards do. The majority of the public will dismiss this as an overreaction and possibly with it the whole anti-ID card argument. Yes there definitely is an issue of privacy and government intrusion, I agree with that and I&#039;d also like to know how they plan to enforce them. However, we can&#039;t start scaremongering. For one thing, we&#039;re no better than Blair if we do that.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Psimon &#8211; because Labour are heavy handed control freaks. They&#8217;re not Nazis and it&#8217;s countrproductive to compare them to Nazis and invoke George Orwell as so many people fighting ID cards do. The majority of the public will dismiss this as an overreaction and possibly with it the whole anti-ID card argument. Yes there definitely is an issue of privacy and government intrusion, I agree with that and I&#8217;d also like to know how they plan to enforce them. However, we can&#8217;t start scaremongering. For one thing, we&#8217;re no better than Blair if we do that.</p>
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