Comments on: Election Night Special – comments from Boris

By: Macarnie

Macarnie — Wed, 25 May 2005 17:29:13 +0000

Ps.I think we have just about exhausted the possiblities of argument on the pros and cons of some sort of ID,therefore,finally, I offer this little opus. Until relatively recently , I always believed, to a greater or lesser extent, in a considerable amount of self regulation for the whole population. This belief has been drastically disturbed, mainly because there is an element of our society; one which cannot readily be recognized; which is only too eager to take advantage of what it sees as a fundamental weakness in the regulation of society in general.
“Trust is fine, but checking is better”, is a German truism which stays in my mind as something of which one should take heed. I lived and worked for many years in Germany, Holland ,Norway and elsewhere. In all these places, there was respect for the representatives of the law: mainly due to the fact that the police are seen as the keepers of the peace. Alas, in the UK, there is an element of, (evil is too harsh a word), shall we say lack of respect, for one’s fellow citizen in this country, as witness, for example, happy slapping: to my mind a symptom of brutalisation. For someone living in the relatively civilized retreat of a non urban environment, such as Henley, the pressures of seemingly constant personal attacks is a whole universe away; whereas those living, or even just partying, in inner city areas, are constantly in danger of apparently unprovoked attacks. If this fact is coupled with the so called honour code of no ‘grassing’ on anyone, it becomes a problem. We have 1984 today; even if not in the form described by Orwell; since newspeak is replaced by the patois of the gang leaders and international body smugglers. The culture of individualism has been the breeding ground for petty lawlessness, which has led to sloppiness in upholding the basic tenets of decency, since the CPS is loth to take any case to court which might fail due to lack of convincing evidence. Therein lies the failure of the system: not in the inability of the police to make arrests.

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By: Psimon

Psimon — Sun, 22 May 2005 19:56:36 +0000

Firstly, i really don’t see how carrying ID cards will help stop criminals. It’ll only help identify them if you can catch them, and they (the police) can’t seem to do that now (unless you consider motorists as criminals…they’re very good at catching THEM!). After you’ve caught them, identifying them isn’t that hard.

Secondly, without a right to a fair trial by my peers, without the right to legal representation (both things the government seems very keen on – the loss of said rights!) i simply DO NOT TRUST them to decide what is and is not criminal. Blimey, what if anyone that voted for Boris was to be carted off to a “Special hospital” for showing signs of intelligence?

No, the fact that the government has always been hopeless at getting any IT project right…i just know it’s all going to go wrong. The database will end up in the wrong hands, criminals will have fake identities that the dtabase thinks are real, miscarriages of justice will increase, future governments (even THIS government) will use it for other purposes. Any or all of the above are more than likely. And then it will all be too late. NONE OF THE THINGS THAT ID CARDS ARE SUPPOSED TO STOP HAVE STOPPED IN THE COUNTRIES THAT USE THEM! If it LOOKS like a cowpat, SMELLS like a cowpat…it ain’t a quiche!

LOL,No, the only way to REALLY cut down on juvenile crime, and the liklihood of said juveniles going on to become career criminals, is to get rid of them. NO MORE CHILDREN!

Harsh, but fair (i think!).

We’ll just have to import our workforce…more immigrants! It’s safer! ;o)

{:o)

(i was joking about the children…we can just lock them up! ;o) )

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By: Lori

Lori — Sun, 22 May 2005 02:50:30 +0000

http://www.no2id.net/index.php

No to ID. Still important!

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By: Macarnie

Macarnie — Sat, 21 May 2005 08:12:00 +0000

This Government, and indeed any and every Government is right to distrust SOME of the people, since, unfortunately we do not live in Paradise,( nor even in the neighbourhood). The minority whose perception of right is to ignore the niceties of a civilised society, or to act in an antisocial manner must, as our population continues to grow, be held answerable for the ever increasing lack of respect for person and property alike . ID cards would not be an absolute, or ideal, solution, but, in the absence of a better suggestion, the requirement to carry them would go some of the way toward identifying wrongdoers.The one right which we all still have , which is indisputable , is the right to think our own thoughts, however they may differ from others.( Having said that, perhaps the Brownie might change that too).

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By: Psimon

Psimon — Fri, 20 May 2005 18:05:38 +0000

1984, of course, was so entitled because it was published in 1948 and Orwell swapped the last 2 numbers. No specific date for what he saw as an inevitable future was given.

We already have over 80% of the worlds CCTV cameras here in the UK. We are, already, the worlds most watched people. Isn’t it nice to know how our own Government trusts us, the people, eh?

No, my point here was simple. It will be impossible to close this (ID card) door AFTER the horse has gone missing. Besides, having spent the last 8 years listening to a Government that says one thing, but is thinking and doing something completely different, I wouldn’t trust ANY thing that they are proposing. It will all be based on dodgey logic and lies, as every Labour policy seems to be. And, as they have lied about everything else, why would anyone be so stupid as to believe them when they talk of “benefits” of ID cards? That person would have to be a moron, or just so naive as to be mistaken for one.

Anti-terrorism? They stop that well in Spain, eh? Immigration? Well, most the “immigrants” that people are objecting too are from the new EU countries – and they’re as entitled to be here as we are entitled to do the same in their country. So, no change there then. Crime? I GUARANTEE that this will not help…i’ve already seen fake EU ID, it’s very good. Besides, criminals break the law. So forcing ID cards on them won’t actually help, will it? It’s just another law they can break. In fact, should ID cards be introduced and made compulsary, i WILL be a criminal…because that’s the label that will be forced on me for standing up for freedom and refusing their orders.

Macarnie, poet of note that you are, why should a free spirit, such as yourself, believe in the removal of freedom and trust from society? Because that’s what bio-metric IDs amount too. Our ever-so-trustworthy Government doesn’t trust its people.

As to Niemoller’s poem..there is more than one version:
“First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out

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By: Macarnie

Macarnie — Fri, 20 May 2005 17:27:34 +0000

Psimon: I hardly think that the poem from Niemoller has significance in the present discussion. Acc. to our masters; all of those categories;( perhaps with the notable exception of the last one), are unimpeachable, due to the PC safeguards imposed . We are not, Acc. to press reports today ,even allowed to say ” Bristol Fashion,” since this has been deemed ” racist”!
However I digress: Blair’s namesake did write 1984, and it was a watchword for an expected political catastrophe, Big Bro. and all : didn’t happen though, did it? I feel you are being a tad pessimistic in the run up to a possible non event : the referendum.

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By: melissa

melissa — Thu, 19 May 2005 15:04:06 +0000

good idea psimon!

Let’s see what happens

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By: Psimon

Psimon — Thu, 19 May 2005 14:46:38 +0000

PPS.

Barry…I got a similar promise from him last time round…then the bugger went and missed the vote because he got the wrong time! Melissa, can you tie a knot in his hanky for us?
)

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By: Psimon

Psimon — Thu, 19 May 2005 14:40:37 +0000

PS. I’m aware that I may be coming over as paranoid. I’m sure i don’t need to remind you that, just because i AM paranoid, doesn’t mean (etc.)

;o)

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By: Psimon

Psimon — Thu, 19 May 2005 14:33:24 +0000

Unfortunately, “freedom” is not guaranteed by law. Even our rights to trial by our peers, and the assumption of innocence, have fallen to Labours bizarre quest for enslaving the country. And this from a supposedly benign government! Perish the thought, but what if the BNP won the next election? Or the one after that? How would the system be used then? There is no point in trying to bolt this stable door AFTER the horse has fled!

As to the comments on travellers: This is a VERY complex issue, and one that you get a better picture of if you DON’T read a certain Daily Paper! I agree that people should not evade tax, then expect benefits. I don’t feel, however, that biometric ID cards will help this. A fundamental change to our benefit system might. What if benefit was awarded on an earned point system? Taxpayers automatically earn points. Non-taxpayers could be “employed” in a variety of public interest jobs to earn points (benefits paid as they work as well). My friends in Norway tell me you have to work for the local government there for several months before you can “sign on”. It keeps the country wonderfully clean and smooth functioning!

Besides this, as AJ has pointed out, we already HAVE plenty of ID! Wouldn’t the money for bio-ID be better spent on improving our hospitals or schools? It’s not as though the Government has a very good track record for introducing such complex schemes anyway!

I am NOT a criminal. I (almost) happily pay my taxes. I do not involve myself with anti-social behaviour (unless it’s trying to stop someone elses!). I have “nothing to fear”. Yet this route terrifies’s me! I refer you again to the “poem” by Martin Niemoller, survivor of a nazi concentration camp:

“First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.”

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