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	<title>Comments on: No Apologies &#8211; Ken Livingstone</title>
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	<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/02/17/no-apologies-ken-livingstone/</link>
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		<title>By: Monkey</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/02/17/no-apologies-ken-livingstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2572</link>
		<dc:creator>Monkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:21:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=127#comment-2572</guid>
		<description>If anybody is guilty of exhibiting Fascist tendencies in this country, it&#039;s the New Left.

Incidentally, even if the reporter wasn&#039;t jewish, when did it become OK for the mayor of London to go around calling Conservative journalists &#039;Nazis, bigots and reactionaries&#039;?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If anybody is guilty of exhibiting Fascist tendencies in this country, it&#8217;s the New Left.</p>
<p>Incidentally, even if the reporter wasn&#8217;t jewish, when did it become OK for the mayor of London to go around calling Conservative journalists &#8216;Nazis, bigots and reactionaries&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: melissa</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/02/17/no-apologies-ken-livingstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2571</link>
		<dc:creator>melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=127#comment-2571</guid>
		<description>V interesting angle, James.  Thanx
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>V interesting angle, James.  Thanx</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-2571" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2571', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-2571-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-2571" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2571', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-2571-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: James E. Cann</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/02/17/no-apologies-ken-livingstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2570</link>
		<dc:creator>James E. Cann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=127#comment-2570</guid>
		<description>The best comment I have seen on this episode is at Spiked-Online: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CA8E2.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CA8E2.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CA8E2.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;

The premise of the piece is that Livingstone has helped to create the atmosphere of which he has fallen foul: &quot;But a climate in which one off-the-cuff insult can be considered grounds for censorship and censure, in which public figures jostle for position to see who can condemn the most loudly, and in which this kind of circus passes for public and political debate, is no good for any of us. Livingstone helped bring us to this situation, but it won&#039;t only be him who pays the price&quot;.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best comment I have seen on this episode is at Spiked-Online: <a href="http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CA8E2.htm" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CA8E2.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CA8E2.htm</a></p>
<p>The premise of the piece is that Livingstone has helped to create the atmosphere of which he has fallen foul: &#8220;But a climate in which one off-the-cuff insult can be considered grounds for censorship and censure, in which public figures jostle for position to see who can condemn the most loudly, and in which this kind of circus passes for public and political debate, is no good for any of us. Livingstone helped bring us to this situation, but it won&#8217;t only be him who pays the price&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/02/17/no-apologies-ken-livingstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2569</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=127#comment-2569</guid>
		<description>One wonders how this topic will play after this little tid-bit of news:


Mayor hits at Mail&#039;s Nazi theme party

Hugh Muir and Sam Jones
Monday February 21, 2005
The Guardian

Ken Livingstone will today ratchet up his row with Associated Newspapers by highlighting published claims that staff there threw a fancy dress party in which they dressed up as Hitler and members of the Third Reich.

After a week of criticism which followed his outburst likening a Jewish Evening Standard reporter to a Nazi concentration camp guard, the mayor of London will seek answers from Associated about a party 13 years ago to mark the end of Sir David English&#039;s period as editor of the Daily Mail.

According to an acclaimed biography of the company, written with the assistance of some of its senior executives, the event had a Nazi theme. In the book, An Unlikely Hero: Vere Rothermere and How the Daily Mail was Saved, the biographer S J Taylor writes that when Lord English stepped down &quot;he gave a party wherein he and all his editorial staff dressed up like Hitler and various members of the Third Reich. A memorable appearance of the newspaper&#039;s drama critic Jack Tinker as Goebbels brought the house down&quot;.

The claim has been repeated several times by the satirical magazine Private Eye, most recently a fortnight ago, and has been seized upon by another of Associated&#039;s enemies, the Daily Express. The two papers had a deal which obliged the Express to stay away from stories about Associated&#039;s past support for Hitler, but following the Mail&#039;s publication last Friday of mafia threats to the Express&#039;s publisher, Richard Desmond, the agreement seems to have been set aside.

Mr Livingstone and the Daily Mail, Associated&#039;s flagship paper, have a long and bitter history. Though it has paid relatively little attention to him at City Hall, the paper was one of his main tormentors during the 1980s when he led the Greater London Council and was derided as &quot;Red Ken&quot;.

A source from the mayor&#039;s office said of the claims in the biography: &quot;These allegations are very serious and pose immediate questions Associated must answer. The questions the mayor is likely to ask today include, does Associated deny this event took place? If it took place, which members of the present staff of Associated Newspapers were present and how were they dressed? What action did Associated Newspapers take against those involved in this event?&quot;

The mayor is keen to mend fences with the Jewish community. He is likely over the next 24 hours to express regret for what was said during his encounter outside City Hall a fortnight ago with the Evening Standard reporter Oliver Finegold. His officials have privately sought meetings with Holocaust survivors who have criticised him. The Board of Deputies of British Jews and the Commission for Racial Equality have both referred Mr Livingstone&#039;s outburst to the local government watchdog, the Standards Board.

But his comments now will fall well short of apologising to the Evening Standard.

Associated Newspapers declined to comment last night
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One wonders how this topic will play after this little tid-bit of news:</p>
<p>Mayor hits at Mail&#8217;s Nazi theme party</p>
<p>Hugh Muir and Sam Jones<br />
Monday February 21, 2005<br />
The Guardian</p>
<p>Ken Livingstone will today ratchet up his row with Associated Newspapers by highlighting published claims that staff there threw a fancy dress party in which they dressed up as Hitler and members of the Third Reich.</p>
<p>After a week of criticism which followed his outburst likening a Jewish Evening Standard reporter to a Nazi concentration camp guard, the mayor of London will seek answers from Associated about a party 13 years ago to mark the end of Sir David English&#8217;s period as editor of the Daily Mail.</p>
<p>According to an acclaimed biography of the company, written with the assistance of some of its senior executives, the event had a Nazi theme. In the book, An Unlikely Hero: Vere Rothermere and How the Daily Mail was Saved, the biographer S J Taylor writes that when Lord English stepped down &#8220;he gave a party wherein he and all his editorial staff dressed up like Hitler and various members of the Third Reich. A memorable appearance of the newspaper&#8217;s drama critic Jack Tinker as Goebbels brought the house down&#8221;.</p>
<p>The claim has been repeated several times by the satirical magazine Private Eye, most recently a fortnight ago, and has been seized upon by another of Associated&#8217;s enemies, the Daily Express. The two papers had a deal which obliged the Express to stay away from stories about Associated&#8217;s past support for Hitler, but following the Mail&#8217;s publication last Friday of mafia threats to the Express&#8217;s publisher, Richard Desmond, the agreement seems to have been set aside.</p>
<p>Mr Livingstone and the Daily Mail, Associated&#8217;s flagship paper, have a long and bitter history. Though it has paid relatively little attention to him at City Hall, the paper was one of his main tormentors during the 1980s when he led the Greater London Council and was derided as &#8220;Red Ken&#8221;.</p>
<p>A source from the mayor&#8217;s office said of the claims in the biography: &#8220;These allegations are very serious and pose immediate questions Associated must answer. The questions the mayor is likely to ask today include, does Associated deny this event took place? If it took place, which members of the present staff of Associated Newspapers were present and how were they dressed? What action did Associated Newspapers take against those involved in this event?&#8221;</p>
<p>The mayor is keen to mend fences with the Jewish community. He is likely over the next 24 hours to express regret for what was said during his encounter outside City Hall a fortnight ago with the Evening Standard reporter Oliver Finegold. His officials have privately sought meetings with Holocaust survivors who have criticised him. The Board of Deputies of British Jews and the Commission for Racial Equality have both referred Mr Livingstone&#8217;s outburst to the local government watchdog, the Standards Board.</p>
<p>But his comments now will fall well short of apologising to the Evening Standard.</p>
<p>Associated Newspapers declined to comment last night</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-2569" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2569', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-2569-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-2569" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2569', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-2569-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jaq</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/02/17/no-apologies-ken-livingstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2568</link>
		<dc:creator>jaq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=127#comment-2568</guid>
		<description>With respect Red Ken was voted into office and frankly I don&#039;t know what all the fuss is about. He had a hissy fit (as opposed to a Hislop fit - one based on some intelligence) and it&#039;s up to those who elected him to put pressure on the powers that be if they are so offended and want his resignation. I don&#039;t live in London and couldn&#039;t be less interested.

I am amazed that this issue has gained so much attention. Column inches in the daily papers maybe but to attract the attention and time of so many top politicians that they make public statements about this! There really are more important things in life. Not that any of you lot will believe me, Boris. Of course my C.V. doesn&#039;t come with the words &quot;daughter of&quot; at the top of it. Enjoy the election.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With respect Red Ken was voted into office and frankly I don&#8217;t know what all the fuss is about. He had a hissy fit (as opposed to a Hislop fit &#8211; one based on some intelligence) and it&#8217;s up to those who elected him to put pressure on the powers that be if they are so offended and want his resignation. I don&#8217;t live in London and couldn&#8217;t be less interested.</p>
<p>I am amazed that this issue has gained so much attention. Column inches in the daily papers maybe but to attract the attention and time of so many top politicians that they make public statements about this! There really are more important things in life. Not that any of you lot will believe me, Boris. Of course my C.V. doesn&#8217;t come with the words &#8220;daughter of&#8221; at the top of it. Enjoy the election.</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-2568" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2568', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-2568-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-2568" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2568', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-2568-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/02/17/no-apologies-ken-livingstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2567</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=127#comment-2567</guid>
		<description>Enough about Red Ken. What we need around here is more about Blue Boris! And here it is. According to the Western Morning New Boris has been hunting in devon playing the Boris Card. Read all about it here:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?command=newPage&amp;nodeId=142718&amp;contentPK=11870118&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?command=newPage&amp;nodeId=142718&amp;contentPK=11870118&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?command=newPage&amp;nodeId=142718&amp;contentPK=11870118&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enough about Red Ken. What we need around here is more about Blue Boris! And here it is. According to the Western Morning New Boris has been hunting in devon playing the Boris Card. Read all about it here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?command=newPage&#038;nodeId=142718&#038;contentPK=11870118" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?command=newPage&#038;nodeId=142718&#038;contentPK=11870118" rel="nofollow">http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?command=newPage&#038;nodeId=142718&#038;contentPK=11870118</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jimbola</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/02/17/no-apologies-ken-livingstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2566</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimbola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=127#comment-2566</guid>
		<description>Boris wrong for the first time ever. After Red Ken knew the guy was Jewish, he continued to make references to German camp guards, completely ill judged and possibly quite telling I think. Kens follow up comments only serve to confirm the worst accusations levelled at him. As for Tony Blair, well he can&#039;t help but get involved, he is compelled to pass moral judgement on everthing that occurs here and wherever else he wuld like to have an influence.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boris wrong for the first time ever. After Red Ken knew the guy was Jewish, he continued to make references to German camp guards, completely ill judged and possibly quite telling I think. Kens follow up comments only serve to confirm the worst accusations levelled at him. As for Tony Blair, well he can&#8217;t help but get involved, he is compelled to pass moral judgement on everthing that occurs here and wherever else he wuld like to have an influence.</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-2566" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2566', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-2566-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-2566" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2566', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-2566-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: S</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/02/17/no-apologies-ken-livingstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2565</link>
		<dc:creator>S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=127#comment-2565</guid>
		<description>Tony coming a cropper? Anyone got the link?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony coming a cropper? Anyone got the link?</p>
<p>Rate This: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-2565" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2565', 'add', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <span id="karma-2565-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</span>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-2565" src="http://www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('2565', 'subtract', 'www.boris-johnson.com/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <span id="karma-2565-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: S</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/02/17/no-apologies-ken-livingstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2564</link>
		<dc:creator>S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=127#comment-2564</guid>
		<description>Why is it that we&#039;re all (mysrlf included) so touchy about anything that has a whiff of anti-Semitism about it, yet we can say bad stuff about Communists, Muslims and gays, even though they too were systematically murdered in the KZ camps? Has it got something to do with our own pet anti-semite, Molesley (I&#039;m too idle to see if that&#039;s the correct spelling), or is it because of the rather too cosy relationship between our American cousins and the military occupiers of Gaza? I think we should be told....
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is it that we&#8217;re all (mysrlf included) so touchy about anything that has a whiff of anti-Semitism about it, yet we can say bad stuff about Communists, Muslims and gays, even though they too were systematically murdered in the KZ camps? Has it got something to do with our own pet anti-semite, Molesley (I&#8217;m too idle to see if that&#8217;s the correct spelling), or is it because of the rather too cosy relationship between our American cousins and the military occupiers of Gaza? I think we should be told&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: The Count</title>
		<link>http://www.boris-johnson.com/2005/02/17/no-apologies-ken-livingstone/comment-page-1/#comment-2563</link>
		<dc:creator>The Count</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://80.82.117.242/?p=127#comment-2563</guid>
		<description>I think Boris is quite right. 100%.

In fact Ken was attempting (rather badly) to make a serious point, but it was not put very well and it was an unfortunate example.  None the less, are all people in this country who say &quot;&#039;following orders&#039; or &#039;doing your job&#039; is not an excuse, look at the Nazis&quot; going to be accused of anti-semitism?

Ken is guilty of many things, but in this case it is insensitivity. He is right not to offer woleful half-apologies in the Blair mode, but to hold his ground in this media-storm and then apologise in his own time for the (relatively minor, all things considering) mistake that he has made.

The people who say that Boris is vacillating and not a proper conservative are being foolish:

Firstly, this thing of attacking your opponent for any and everything they do without a sense of proportion and decency is a horrendous recent development in global politics and seems to be particularly worse over the Atlantic. Just have a look at all those US bloggers ranting and raving at each other without rhyme or reason and ask yourself if you want us all to decend to that level because if we just jump on someone everytime they do anything because they are in a different political camp then we are headed in a very nasty direction. All of us.

Secondly, if we whip up excitement and hysteria over small things then we risk creating a climate where we ourselves become victims to this kind of thing, because the loudest and most uncrupulous politician (or journalist) will be successful.

Well said Boris. Ken should be attacked for his real faults.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Boris is quite right. 100%.</p>
<p>In fact Ken was attempting (rather badly) to make a serious point, but it was not put very well and it was an unfortunate example.  None the less, are all people in this country who say &#8220;&#8216;following orders&#8217; or &#8216;doing your job&#8217; is not an excuse, look at the Nazis&#8221; going to be accused of anti-semitism?</p>
<p>Ken is guilty of many things, but in this case it is insensitivity. He is right not to offer woleful half-apologies in the Blair mode, but to hold his ground in this media-storm and then apologise in his own time for the (relatively minor, all things considering) mistake that he has made.</p>
<p>The people who say that Boris is vacillating and not a proper conservative are being foolish:</p>
<p>Firstly, this thing of attacking your opponent for any and everything they do without a sense of proportion and decency is a horrendous recent development in global politics and seems to be particularly worse over the Atlantic. Just have a look at all those US bloggers ranting and raving at each other without rhyme or reason and ask yourself if you want us all to decend to that level because if we just jump on someone everytime they do anything because they are in a different political camp then we are headed in a very nasty direction. All of us.</p>
<p>Secondly, if we whip up excitement and hysteria over small things then we risk creating a climate where we ourselves become victims to this kind of thing, because the loudest and most uncrupulous politician (or journalist) will be successful.</p>
<p>Well said Boris. Ken should be attacked for his real faults.</p>
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