General Election strategies
Clear choice at the next election: unlimited and uncontrolled immigration under Mr Blair, limited and controlled immigration with the Conservatives.
Any views on election strategies would be welcomed
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Clear choice at the next election: unlimited and uncontrolled immigration under Mr Blair, limited and controlled immigration with the Conservatives.
Any views on election strategies would be welcomed
Agreed. Besides:
1. The Tories already have an Australian on board
2. I have plans of my own for the election
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Ah, you’re starting the blogger’s party Tim?
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Nothing quite so tedious, I’m afraid.
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Great idea. Let’s restrict immigration. I’m listening to Michael Howard on Five Live as I write. He’s recommending that unwanted immigrants are somehow shipped out to ‘centres’ in as-yet-unspecified locations abroad. Couldn’t agree more. Let’s ship out the Ugandan Asians, and the Huguenots, and the Normans, and those pesky Saxons for God’s sake, and while we’re at it there are probably a few Roman descendants still kicking around. Hell, we could really go with our logic and pack the Celts into longboats while we’re at it. This would be SUCH a successful country if we just left it to the Beaker People…
Mind you, we’re going to need an awfully large ‘centre’. I wonder if they’ll lend us America?
When oh when oh when oh when are you Tories going to grow up on this issue and start looking at real problems?
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Argh. Why did they start on immigration? I live in a town with a large and mostly peaceful immigrant minority of various races. The local conservative group are generally well-behaved in things like the local communities forum. Now you want them to start saying “it’s great you’re here, but we’re gonna try and stop any more coming”? Electoral suicide.
Immigration also tends to bring out the worst tendencies of conservative support. Never mind Labour and their loony left – that’s a minor PR problem compared to the ranting right-wing.
Unfortunately, small-but-good government isn’t something conservatives here can lay claim to. The first two years of conservative rule in the local council has seen expansion of various “big government” programmes without solving basics like the rubbish collection cock-up contract signed by the last administration. The bin men are getting assaulted as a result of citizen frustration with collect-to-rule and fly-tipping, but the council is just going to send residents a letter while the “Best Value Improvement Plan” is about stuff like writing call centre scripts. It wouldn’t surprise me if we lost our conservative MP at the next election.
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Aaron said: “Argh. Why did they start on immigration?”
At a guess? Someone was watching Vote For Me and took note of the winner’s platform.
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Am really getting a good sense of people’s vision for the future and their current frustrations and burning desires.
Andy – good slogan!
Tim – you sure do have plans for the Election..look forward to seeing them unfold in due course
Simon – One species as in One Nation? an extension of the Disraeli view to encompass global thinking – that does sound radical
Boris said he would be posting something for the blog soon … he is definitely gettin da han of it
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Melissa – I just spotted your reply to Vicus way way back. I’m puzzled. Why on earth do we need a prototype for a species?
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that Vicus was sugesting we all stop twittering on about quangos and crime and small or large government and the highly unlikely possiblity that 50 million Croats are going to come swanning in here and take all our jobs away oh woe; and turn our attention instead to the issues that might yet kill us all. The science on global warming is there for all to see: any responsible government, that put its conscience ahead of its re-electability, would be declaring a state of emergency today. Not at some vague unspecified point in the future when we all manage to sit down and agree on our Kyoto quota percentages.
Oh, and by the way: if you do want a prototype for the human race, how about the one that started reaching into its collective pocket on Boxing Day to pour private money at unprecedented levels into the Tsunami funds. We’re good people, on the whole. It’s usually just the politicians that hold us back…
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I hate to be very simplstic on what is a very complex subject. But the only thing I can see behind this tatic is the make them afarid and they’ll vote for us. They are coming to this country to take your daughters away. It’s the same with old ideas towards the EU: do you want to be talking german by this time next year? You will be if we stay in the EU? All i can say to this kind of policy and I apoligise for using such a word around here to Mellissa and the big BJ, but its BOLLOKS…
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Stand up for the disenfranchised and discriminated against majority, the second-class citizens in the UK called the “English”.
Demand an English Parliament on a par with the Scottish Parliament, and create an English Conservative Party to go alongside the Scottish one, etc.
Bold, and would strike a chord with the increasingly fed-up English electorate.
English students, English OAPs, in fact all the English who are subsidising the largesse of the devolved parliaments whilst having to pay for themselves will cheer to the rafters.
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The trouble is, Mark, that I must’ve got into a twitter with Vicus – that’s the effect he seems to have on me… must cure myself..
The prototype idea – one of collective reaching out – that is everything we need
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Nick
you make me blush – that is about the limit…
tho’ you do talk a lot of sense
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Conservative MPs should stop trying to ‘Out”Thatcherise” Tony Blair. Your tax plans and waste cutting nonsense makes no sense if your party are not going to tell people how they are going to make people better off. The feeble tax plans do not make any change to this. Mr Brown would do it much better.
All through the 1980s and 1990s indirect taxes went up while direct taxes were ‘cut’. This continues in the 2000s to feed the ever increasing appetite of gov. for our taxes.
If we abolished government interest in some areas and worked on the idea that people should take economic and social responsibility would send UK forward in a new direction.
Lets think of a real movement in UK to help the poor everywhere. Especially in our own country. Why are kids going without clothes or proper shoes or schools closing or no provision for excluded kids? Why are we not ensuring that every pensioner or ill person has food and drink and warm dry shelter?
we need to realise that unless the groumnd opens up and swallows Tony Blair And Co the Tories are looking at a horrible election nationally. 3 times in a row.
Tory MP look after your constituents to ensure you do not go down with the ship of fools along with Silkie Howard. Alternative is to join Liberal Democrats where they welcome all sorts.
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‘Conservative MPs should stop trying to ‘Out”Thatcherise” Tony Blair’
Mystere – I just love this idea it some how get’s to the heart of whats going on in the house of commons. And one of the reasons why there does not seem to any oppostion any more. We could get to the point in the next ten years where New Labour and the Conservatives will have to sit around a table and talk together rather then trying to talk against each other. This could easily be one of the next big events of british polotics. The need to talk about common ground has become more important then trying to make each other seem differnt. After all there is hardly any space between these parties these days.
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How about just shutting the door completely for a while? Not controlled, SHUT! Asylum? We’re full luv try France they have more room, our NHS is past it’s knees and on the floor now. Housing? Got none, try Germany. Oh you ARE an immigrant and you’d like to either establish or further a culture of guaranteed immigration by marriage? Oh that’s easy, if you love each other then being together is all that matters, for better or for worse, the door is closed. I’m sure the British citizen will move to you, they love you don’t they? Wasn’t that the point?
We need more than vague promises and small gestures Boris. Some would say, lovely, that we need you. So if you were in #10 and Stanley in 11 Downing Street would that rival Blair and Brown do you think?
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Bugger me, I seem to inadvertently started a serious mini-debate here. Thanks for your comments Mark, and Melissa, I can see that we are gradually converting you. I would welcome you all to my new political party, but can not think of a suitable leader now that Janis Joplin and Jerry Garcia are both dead.
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Vicus – there’s always Kilroy…
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If there’s one man I hate in this country it’s Kilroy….
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A good love & peace leader – Paul McCartney must be getting tired of all that singing round the world – he could turn his mind to your cosmic idea Vicus!
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Oh come on, Kilroy is good for comedy value. Especially his repeated bouts of throwing the toys out of the pram.
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Only 1 thing will win Tories the election, a poster with Blair on and Boris on saying “Clear Choice”.
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Now, now Vicus – you know Janis would never have shown up for the meetings. Or are we talking about a different kind of party?
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David Wildgoose
Are you sure about this ‘English’ thing? I’m one quarter Londoner with a smattering of Scots, one quarter Welsh, one quarter Surrey with a large does of Huguenot French, and one quarter Lancashire (with presumably a hefty dose of Norse genetics). No matter how hard I try to define myself, I always come up with ‘British’.
I’m betting you’re the same. Most of us are. Of course it may be that you’re a fourth generation Anglo-Saxon on all sides of your family, in which case I have really bad news for you. Your ancestors were economic migrants on a national scale. Highly unpopular at the time, too – until everyone noticed that the long-term mix of Celtic and Anglo-Saxon culture was really rather a good thing for everybody.
The minute you shut the door on the world, you start to rot. Look what happened to the Soviets.
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Boy this is a fun debate. I wish Michael Howard would speak up more often!
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Ure a grt debater Mark – I like your doses – sounds like you’re preparing a recipe: bit of pepper, bit of salt, bit of sugar, dash of malt ….
international outlook is vital – am with you there
The blogs help -
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I’m a fan of small government. You used to represent my interests from that point of view.
Now you support ID cards.
I cannot support a party determined to stage such a gross, fundamental and unwarranted intrusion into my daily life.
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A lot of interesting posts. This blog seems to be a lot livelier than anything happening in the Conservative Party!
But let’s take another tack: As we all remember, Bill Clinton said ‘It’s the economy . . .’
The Tories have concentrated on attacking Blair, his (lack of) integrity and his style of politics. However the PM is already discredited with most of the public and is heartily detested by a good half of his party.
On the other hand, Howard and Co. have failed to make any determined effort to attack Brown and Labour’s handling of the economy.
Brown has been allowed to hype up the supposed strength and robustness of the British economy to the extent that ordinary people in this country think that the rest of the world is in decline, or as Chris Patten said, the Chancellor is “giving the impression that the rest of Europe is having to depend on food parcels in comparison with the great economic miracle in the UK”.
Labour are potentially vulnerable on productivity, modernization, the environment, and individual liberties, but if the Tories are going to win any seats at all, the main challenge has to be on the economy.
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The Economy -
Gordon Brown inherited a golden legacy in ’97 but has been a massive spender and has been spending billions – he is creating a big black hole.
A big issue in the election campaign must be ‘tax and spend’. Labour has been tinkering too much with spending and our position in the league tables has dropped – our economy is slipping down the global league.
We must allow national sovereignty to drive policy and create more free markets and individual responsibility.
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Funnily enough I was thinking about not voting for Labour at this election but the recent pronouncements by Mr Howard on immigration has driven me right back into their arms. As someone who remembers vividly the mess that the last Tory administration made of the country, bad schools, a reduced NHS and atrophy and hatred across the land, I shudder at the thought of a repeat of that fiasco. Now this veiled policy, implicitly targeted at ethnic immigrants, will assure Labour of another comprehensive victory and you will only have yourselves to blame.
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There is only one way for the Tories ever to come to power, have a leader who wasn’t associated with the 1990 ish- 1997 era. Then they can’t have a go at them for doing rubbish back then, cos they wern’t around back then.
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On the matter of policies :
1 Outlaw racist policies like those espoused by B N P
2. Admit that we need immigrants to keep our corrupt and failing society going. With a declining birth rate who is going to pay for your pension and geriatric care if not our friends from the third world who come here?
3. Anyone who wants to be elected is obviously working for her or his agenda – so professional politicians ought to be disbarred from High office. Only persons chosen to serve by electorate should be given power for limited periods. Politicians must receive counselling trauining from Samaritans.
3.1 Any one with a sunbed tan to be deported as an undesirable alien( espcially former labour MPs former TV personalties who were in UKIP and now are not !)
4. Anne Widdecombe for Prime Minister! If that does not frighten terrorists off we could try Princess Anne as foreign secretary. And Janet Street Porter as The Hoon (SEcy for Defence).
5 Admit that we are bust twice over (1931, 1941 1967 and 1977+1992 nearly)in UK . This is because of unrealistic approaches by successive governments. Lady Thatcher sold our oil too damn cheaply in 1980s so balancing the books comes first. Long term we ought to be spending within narrower ranges. It appears to me that the armed forces are overstretched so we could try to redeploy all those threatened with redundancy by Brown’s civil service “reforms” to Army. That keeps them gainfully employed and out of dole figures. They can be the Home training and supply tail.
Or they can work in Education or N H S as aides and assistants.
5.1 Flat tax rate of 22% on all income over
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Melissa – thanks for letting me join in. Babbling in Boris’s blog provides a welcome relief from writing conference scripts (almost all of which seem to be about telecommunications nowadays sigh)…
Simon Holledge – I remember what Clinton said. But are we sure he was right? Seems to me that my finances are in pretty much the same state whatever the governing party. To whit: it’s not how much you pay in tax that hurts, it’s what it’s wasted on. And that’s an observation that applies to every government since I started to take notice. Callaghan, Thatcher, Major, Blair. The minute they come to power they get their coat-tails caught in the machinery of government and become powerless to make the really brave decisions. As opposed to the easy ones, like backing George Bush or whittering about immigration…
(I seem to have looped myself back to where I began here. Oh well. At least I’m being neat about it all)
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Mystere: quite a plethora of ideas.
Quote: “7. British sports teams must be at least 66.67% British nationals to qualify .e g If Chelsea puts out more than 6 non UK citizens in each game they lose 1 point for each more than 6.”
Hmm. Like it or not, British football is about the only national activity where we are at the highest international levels. It’s easy to see why: many of the best players and managers, irrespective of nationality, are here.
Imagine British businesses, transport, health service, utilities, arts organizations etc. all run by top international managers, hired on their track record, irrespective of nationality.
It would be like waking up and finding you were living in California!
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Mark Gamon: “I remember what Clinton said. But are we sure he was right?”
Clinton was talking about election strategy, and yes he was right. He won two elections.
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Simon Holledge…
Yes. I knew that. But was he RIGHT?
Let’s all stop being pragmatic for a minute, and try and do what the world needs for a change.
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let’s just wait till the next Boris column – that might give us a clue!
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Oh all right, Melissa. I’ll wait. But only ‘cos you asked so nicely…
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And the blogs do help, now I come to think of it.
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Goodo – you must be right Mark….
BTW really admire your blogsite and ‘Clunk and Rattle writing section’ and book ‘Briton’
very kl
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Wow. You looked. I’m dead flattered. Really. I’ll send you a free copy if you tell me where.
Does very kl mean v. kewl? I lose track of this modern jargon…
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dat does mean cool – u haf 2 learn da slan’
just to B Johnson c/o House of Commons, London SW1A 0AA wd be gr8
c u l8er
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I be postin’ da lichrachure wi’ pleasure, mon. Gr8 of u to ask…
Sheesh. I can’t keep ‘dis up… I’m a predictive text kind of fellah…
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i can’t believe the Tories are doing this – immigration is such a big NON ISSUE with folks.
You have to do something serious radical – something that really gets people’s attention.
FLAT TAX!! No reliefs, no highly complicated labrynthine Inland Revenue rules, no industry of tax consultants/lawyers. How many billions would be saved in efficiencies? How much money would suddenly be liberated in the economy?
They’ve done flat tax in Eastern Europe with astonishing growth rates as a result. Do something radical Tories and wake me up out of my cant-tell-the-difference haze…
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Justin – flat tax? Eastern Europe? Which countries are we talking about here?
I’m impressed by the astonishing growth rates. Just don’t quite buy the idea of everybody paying 20%.
Oh. Unless you’re suggesting we all go up to 40%?
(Ouch)
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flat tax rates, and implementation dates:
Estonia: 26% since mid-1990s
Latvia: 25% since mid-1990s
Russia: 13% , Jan 1st 2001
Ukraine: 13% , 2003
Slovakia: 19% , 2004
Romania: 16%, 2005
good article here:
http://www.globalpolitician.com/articles.asp?ID=284
Yes, I know the arguments for and against it, but it IS radical , and the Tories can gather the evidence on it’s effects from those Eastern European governments. Admittedly, those eastern European countries are starting from very low bases, so their GDP growth rates might be illusory ,and may well bed down once their economies mature.
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sorry , left out Georgia, and Lithuania. Georgia has the lowest – 12%. Key thing from reading about this is that it’s not just the rate at which it’s set – it’s the closing of all loopholes,and exemptions wherein the efficiency benefits arise. The aim is that you should be able to do your tax return on the back of a postcard, in terms of the simplicity of it.
Czech Republic and Poland are seriously looking into it. Spain might well do it too, as one-fifth of the Spanish economy is in the black untaxed economy. Advocates of flat tax say that simplification generated by flat taxes can actually increase overall tax revenue. Corporate tax loopholes are closed as well – no exceptions , and no army of tax consultants and lawyers.
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There are two basic goals in a society
1)Reproduction &
2)Progress or increasing comfort/happiness.
I think the focus in recent times has been on progress. Women have worked, communities have been lost and people are ever more dislocated.
Add to this ugly looking surrounds and fiscal insecurity and its no wonder that lots of people are jolly depressed.
Goodness who wouldn’t be?
Honestly, I wish government would have a go at fixing some of our social problems.
Playing the race card is a tricky thing to do.
I don’t believe that most people generally dislike people from other races but like most people they want to be involved in communities of people who are like them (increasingly difficult).
They are often quite jealous of tight knit ethnic communities.
Yet politically, playing to this understandable instinct is difficult because it smacks of mean spiritedness. No-one likes to imagine that they are hard hearted and a leader that shines a mirror to this instinct may not do well unless they can come at the issue from a common sense perspective that the population can live with.
The push for immigration comes from the top end of town and with their unnatural allience with the liberal progressives it seems unlikely that immigration will halt.
More focus must be on structuring a society where people can reproduce and have communities
Currently, we are in the thows of a social experiment where men and women have
Early societies playing with progress, learning how to
There is absolutely no point getting confused by progressive ethical dilemmas.
The problems that we face
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You have got to make more of EU sleaze. A good idea would be to demand a freeze of all UK funding to the EU until they publish their accounts. When Blair refuses then you can portray him as part of the corrupt ‘EU establishment’.
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Missing the point
If, as expected, the General Election is called in May, I won’t be entitled to vote. But even I can see that, if they don’t improve dramatically, the Tories are on their way to a monumental gubbing. As irritating and…
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My MP Didn’t vote against I D cards on 21st December !!! Why not ?
He was not alone . Howard Herded the entire conservative herd into abstention poor dears.
Boris Johnson ought to give a month’s salary to the Police Benevolent Society for this ( from all his jobs )
MPs should attend the debate and vote. That
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