SOS
Re: The Spectator editorial out today
Boris is very sorry as he certainly didn’t mean to offend anybody.
We will come back to you asap.
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Re: The Spectator editorial out today
Boris is very sorry as he certainly didn’t mean to offend anybody.
We will come back to you asap.
Your comments re Liverpool are fully supported – pity you are obliged to apologise.
I would like to know a little more about Mr Bigley background – one time barman on the Costa de Sol – married to a far eastern lady – so called ‘engineer’ all a bit fishy to me.
Yes Liverpool people were responsible for Hillsborough and if my memory serves me right were they not associated with a disaster resulting from loss of life at another Football Stadium on the Continent.
I have served in the Royal Air force and I have yet to meet a scouse with any integrity.
To make it the Cultral Centre of UK is a joke particularly if Cilla Black and idiot Tarbuck are an example of the culture they can spawn.
Alf Garnet was right when he referred to his son in law as a scouse git.
Liverpool people have for many years contributed nothing to the well being of the Nation. They destroyed the motor industry with there indusrial disputes and the quality of work from their shipbuilders (Birkenhead) was terrible.
Remember the TV Show ‘Not for Bread Alone’that just about sums up the average liverpudlian.
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Gerry Hill’s grasp of history & spelling surely qualifies him to be one of Boris Johnson’s Parliamentary colleagues.
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A wise move by Melissa to amend the original blog post.
[Ed: really - thanks for that Greg. m.]
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anyone who publishes in the media is going to, at some point, say something that people dont agree with. i myself dont agree with this particular article but i have agreed with some of his other articles, thats not what matters though-what matters is that i love reading his articles and seeing him on television because he is always witty and perceptive.
) and all will be well.
i dont see how it has ANY bearing on his political career-its just his opinion-every politician has the odd opinion that others wont like-big woo!
and i REALLY dont think that the spectator is going to lose too many readers over this haha.
i think boris johnson will just go to liverpool and charm the pants off them (he could charm the pants off me no doubt
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Don’t go, Boris. Tell your boss to take a running jump. (I’m not sure what this means but it sounds good).
I watched TV on the afternoon of the Hillsborough deaths and I saw a live broadcast of Liverpool fans arriving shortly before kick off time in an ugly mood and probably under the influence. Had some idiot not ordered a senior police officer to accept blame on behalf of the police later in the afternoon, the blame would have rested where it should.
Heysel and Hillsborough – spot the connection.
Keep your pecker up. (That’s the innocent English pecker rather than the more controversial American one)
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The irony is that Liverpool’s reaction to Ken Bigley’s incarceration and eventual murder were fairly low key. The article wasn’t just offensive, it was daft and wrong. It assumed that Liverpool had reacted to Bigley’s murder in a manner that it hadn’t and then attacked the city based on this prejudiced assumption.
I’m not sure to what extent Liverpool would have to have had under-reacted to Bigley’s murder in order to have avoided being attacked someone in the London media for overreacting, but Liverpool’s mild reaction to last week’s news must be seen as a fair attempt.
In short, post Hillborough, ignorant and bigotted people assume that Liverpool overly dwells on any misfortunes, a man orignally from Liverpool is murdered and the town of his birth reacts in a subdued fashion (one service in a cathedral, a two minutes’ silence organised by the council and observed by about 7 council members, and little else) and a Tory newspaper attacks the city based on nonexistant overreaction. One or two dim posters on this forum has stated that Liverpool reacting to this slur proves their point, but again, the irony is that Liverpool (despite the contemptible paragraph backing up The Sun’s lies about Hillsborough) seems to be pretty much ignoring the article, as it should.
I expect that Boris Johnson will be met with a better reception on his enforced visit to Liverpool than those who have a prejudice against the city might expect and, given the nasty and bigoted nature of the article, he probably deserves.
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America is enjoying this. Keep up the good work!
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After reading some of the posts on this page, it seems to me that your average Liverpudlian is extremely well-balanced, with a massive chip on both shoulders.
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Don’t you think that the citizens of Liverpool have suffered enough, without having to put up with the babblings of an anachronistic, bumbling Tory?
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Boris; given your current position [in the dog house] I think it an ideal time for you to do the right thing and turn on those responsible for this whole brouhaha; the media. Far from reporting news, they go out of their way to create it, turning tradgedy into drama time and time again; turning lives into public spectacle. It isn’t surprising we find it hard to know how to react to the news when it has become more like That’s Life than responsible reporting. Boris, fight back; and give that leader of yours a kick up the pants for being so bloody malleable; so bloody spineless. And even if you are wrong, what is so bad about that? Don’t we enjoy debate anymore? Are we so sensitive that simply reading another point of view condems us to years of therapy? [There will be a memorial service and huge heap of flowers in memory of sanity starting now and going on until something else catches a journalists eye.]
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Oops..! Real vote catcher that one, Boris..! Good understanding of the economic history of industrial Britain too.
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Please, please, can we have a little perspective? In the grand universal scheme of things does this article really matter? Yes, it was thoughtless and professionally negligent – but which of us, hand on heart, can say that we have never been either of these things? I know I can’t.
This article is not a tragedy. I might even suggest that Ken Bigley’s death was not a tragedy – he knew what he was getting himself into. If you are looking for a tragedy, look a little down the coast from Liverpool to Morcambe Bay, where earlier this year thirty Chinese immigrants doing a menial, unpleasant job died through no real fault of their own. Consider their families, dispersed across China who cannot be benefit from the support of a single, cohesive community. Consider how quickly they have been forgotten. No investigation into their death, as far as I know (and I would be interested to hear if there is one). No two minute’s silence. I doubt if their memories will live on for the next fifteen years.
Some good points have been made on this board. No doubt it is difficult for a middle class professional from the South East to understand the sense of solidarity and community that has developed from Liverpool’s shared history and experience. No doubt there is a tendency for Liverpudlians to see themselves as slightly misunderstood. Certainly, groups with the strongest sense of identity must by definition be characterised by a very clear sense of ‘us against the world’ – either as the victors or as the victims.
But these ideas are not new, neither are they particularly useful in this context. Nothing will be achieved by slating or praising Boris unconstrainedly. Perhaps the best thing that could arise from this whole issue is an understanding that we can never see ourselves dispassionately and that sometimes it is necessary to look at things from the other person’s point of view – we may even be able to learn by looking through their eyes. I certainly feel that this lesson could usefully be applied to Iraq, for example, where the level of day-to-day suffering makes a lot of Iraqi complicity in heinous actions comprehensible, if not desirable.
So please can we stop getting caught up in our little tribal identities and think about the bigger picture. It is when people feel they have something beyond criticism to defend that they go on the attack, and we have seen too many times the consequences of war.
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Spot on Boris, thank you for saying what many people were really thinking. Something that hardly ever happens these days in politics (although appreciate its a magazine leader not a party political statement). What a breath of fresh air you are.
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Boris,
I am sorry you apologised. You accepted an article that you thought was right, and if some disagree, that’s life. Hillsborough was a terrible tragedy, but the police couldn
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I am not quite sure what everybody is getting so upset about, certainly if you only read parts of the article it may look bad but having read the whole piece it seems reasoned and balanced. Sorry to see you are getting a roasting over this one Boris.
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Boris – your boss seems to have over reacted on this one. How long till you take a shot at his job?
Keep up the good work.
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I’m not surprised that there has been this reaction to the Spectator editorial. I’m sure the offended are morbidly extatic that they have been given the opportunity to take their twisted sweet misery to a new level. I doubt that most of the angry actually read the article, and its clear that those who did read it saw the criticism and, due to their being the very people Boris was talking about, missed the whole point. People often block out the offending truuth and see what they want to see because its easier than facing up to the cold shocking reality and dealing with it.
To quote Boris, because most of the angry readers probably didn’t make it to the last paragraph of the editorial – a mistake for any Speccie reader in my experience and a sure way of missing the point – “In our maturity as a civilisation, we should accept that we can cut out the cancer of ignorant sentimentality without diminishing, as in this case, our utter disgust as a foul and barbaric act of murder.”
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I agree in theory whith what Boris said in his article. The British media love to make martyrs out of people. Princess Di, for example, was attacked by the press while she was alive then Queen of our Hearts once she died? At the end of the day, there is nothing like a good old British tragedy to get us to rally round and buy some papers.
I do think Ken Bigley’s death has been blown out of proportion, did we hold two minutes silence for the two Italian women who were murdered, or the American hostages, or the Japanese, or any of the Iraqis who have died during this whole debacle? A big fat resounding NO!
As someone from Liverpool, I can confirm that we are not all walking round beating our chests and wallowing in grief, however, as Ken Bigley was from our area, the war in Iraq seems to have been brought ‘closer to home’ so to speak, and has touched the people of Liverpool because he could have easily been someone we knew. I really do not think that had he came from Manchester or London or anywhere else in Britain, the reaction would have been any different. Boris had a valid point, but really needs to get someone better to proof read his work before it goes to print.
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You twit Boris. Although your editorial contained many uncomfortable about our society (and not just that of Liverpool), you really, really should think before committing word to paper. That’ll teach you to talk Hillsborough & football without even checking your facts first.
You may remember the Taylor report into Hillsborough. He said many fine things which have changed football for both better and for worse. But Taylor spread blame far too thinly, and the vents of the day were coloured with the same brand of whitewash not seen until the Hutton report emerged.
Eat Humble Pie, my man, and come back talking your usual informed sense. Chalk this one up to experience.
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Can I suggest Boris atones for this with a special Scouse edition of the Spectator, in praise of all the great things Liverpool has to offer. He’ll find something else to fill the other hundred pages.
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Slightly off the topic this, but I feel I have to say this. Who the hell is this ‘PC Brigade’ of whom we hear so much? Does anyone ever admit to being a member? Has anyone ever said ‘yes, I am in the PC Brigade and I demand that you retract that statement’? By the evidence of today, the people of Liverpool and Michael Howard must be fully paid up members, because they seem to be the ones protesting. The ‘PC Brigade’ seem to be an amorphous group on whom anything can be blamed whenever someone sees something they dislike and can’t be bothered to make a rational argument about it. It’s getting boring.
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This ia topic I’d like to hear Boris talking about:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html
Here are some comments a friend of mine made (well, and mine too):
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cavalorn/119448.html
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This ia topic I’d like to hear Boris talking about:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1329858,00.html
Here are some comments a friend of mine made (well, and mine too):
http://www.livejournal.com/users/cavalorn/119448.html
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Sorry for the repeat post. The form thingy crashed, so I thought it hadn’t gone through.
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Boris, do us a favour and don’t come to Liverpool. You’ve done us a bad enough turn as it is. After being slighted we could really do without being patronised by a dumb Tory prick.
Nice to see you reverting to type with fabricating information for an article. Cost you a job last time didn’t it? Wonder if it will this time.
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The BBC News Magazine used Boris as their “quote of the day” today – “Michael Howard has ben magnificent in all respects and behaved in a way I can only describe as being prime ministerial”.
As for the article itself, I think Boris had a good point but managed to hide it under so many bad ones.
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No one has mentioned the Beatles yet. If Liverpool has anything to be ashamed of, It’s them!
Merk
An Everton Fan!
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As expected, Boris’s misdemeanour has been used as an excuse to bash Liverpool, and specifically its ‘capital of culture’ status. At the risk of drifting off-topic, perhaps the ill-informed person who highlighted Cilla Black and Jimmy Tarbuck as Liverpool’s only cultural ambassadors should re-assess his opinion.
Liverpool has one of the finest provincial orchestras in the country, playing in one of the best concert halls. The Walker Art Gallery is renowned as one of the finest provincial galleries in Europe. Liverpool has some of the finest victorian architecture in the country, and more listed buildings than anywhere else outside London (over 2,500). Liverpool’s contribution to the music scene in the sixties (not just the Beatles) was second to none. The city has a proud industrial heritage, and was recently designated a world heritage site. It is the most filmed British city outside the capital. The tate is the largest modern art gallery outside London. Liverpool university is the original ‘redbrick’ university, and the cathedral is the largest in Britain. Liverpool’s chinatown is one of the longest established in Europe. The city has recently produced a clutch of new bands (the Coral, the Zutons, the Dead 60′s, etc.) who are acting as a breath of fresh air to the current music scene. I could go on. It is ill-informed opinion based on oft-peddled stereotypes that leads people to pooh-pooh Liverpool’s cultural value – in truth, the city has made far more valuable a cultural contribution than virtually any other city in Britain, including many that are much larger.
Incidentally, I am not originally from Liverpool – I moved to work here 15 years ago from London, and found the city to be vibrant, welcoming and creative in a way that London could never be. I would advise any of my fellow southeners to visit the city before passing judgement on the city or it’s people. There’s a lot less crime, too!
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Boris – you are the best. You are quite right in your assessment of Liverpudlians, and I suspect your clear-sightedness on this comes from the fact that they are all welfare-scrounging Irishmen at heart and, as a good Unionist, you are able to spot the Irish danger to our country’s values. I entirely sympathise with your attacks on Blair’s big sell out, otherwise known as the Good Friday agreement, and I know when you become PM – as you no doubt will soon – you will tear it up and put the troops back onto the streets of Belfast to protect our culture. Please tell Michael Coward, as we shall now have to call your boss, I suppose, that he can stuff his apology to the Liverpudlians. And next time, hit the scroungers even harder: there’s no shame in telling the truth, and no need to apologise.
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Merk – although in themselves I agree, I can’t deny that they have influenced quite a number of great musicians since.
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But how much time did the Beatles spend in Liverpool after they became famous?
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Boris Johnson, and sadly thousands like him, have no idea what it means to be British, let alone northern. He and his ilk will never hold power in this country longer than the time it takes to spot a facile windbag usually takes. The upper crust view of the country belongs in a Mary Poppins remake. The UK can be great again, but not with “politicians” like this scary cretin, Howard and the rest of these out of touch, out of date dinosaurs. If you doubt me…enjoy your trip to Liverpool!
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Boris
Whilst I have always regarded you as some what of an odious oaf I feel compelled to jot a few words in your support in these times of ferment and, seemingly, class war.
Yes, you were right to apologise – if only to soothe the masses North of Watford who’s red buttons you seem to have so brashly pushed. Your leader was spot on in asmuch as people in the West today seem to need a “weeping point” to channel their frustration at today’s “unfair” world.
Which brings me to Liverpool. At the risk of further stoking the conflagration that is the “debate” surrounding the leader in the Spectator – which City has one of the highest crime rates in the UK? Could it be that City is the same one so valliantly defended as being “close knit” and “having a sense of community”. Is to rob and thump now to be seen as a gesture of community spirit?
All the very best
Mildred
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I note that most of the foul language comes from those presumeably on the left of things given their comments. Can we not make comments without using words that you would be ashamed to use in front of your daughters/wives etc? Poor Melissa has to sit and read these you know! Its was not her fault so let us have a discussion but cut out the really foul words please…?
PS Me Mam’s a Scouser but she says she was one of the lucky ones – she left in 1957 and hasn’t been back since!
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Whatever happened to freedom of speach? The aim of articles of this type is to generate debate and discussion. The knee jerk reactions are purely political and media generated and I don’t think many people are genuinely that bothered – or if they are they shouldn’t be. As for it changing someone’s decision to vote at elections – go get a life.
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Fret not Boris
The much-vaunted Liverpool sense-of-humour will eventually kick in and they will suddenly learn to laugh at themselves.
And Tony will let Gordon be PM…
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Mildred,
‘which City has one of the highest crime rates in the UK?’
The answer I guess you are aiming for is Liverpool – except of course it isn’t true. In comparison with similar post industrial cities Liverpool’s crime rate is rather low. Certainly better than both Manchester and West Yorkshire, and I believe better than inner London.
Many of the postings on here about Liverpool say more about their authors than they do about the topic. I believe it is unreasonable for people who have obviously never been to the city to peddle their stereotypical views as facts. Most of them seem to have come from watching Bread or some other 20 year old television programme.
And in particular it is offensive for people to pass comment about the events leading up to the Hillsborough disaster when their ‘facts’ appear to have come from the South Yorkshire Police and The Sun. Both of whom have subsequently retracted their accounts. In fact the Police Officer in charge was branded a ‘liar’ in both the official report and the Houses of Parliament.
Its a circular argument. You believe Liverpudlians to be scum so you believe the worst lies about them so as to confimr your prejudices. Then when they complain at your uninformed comments you slag them off for wallowing in victimhood, using their refusal to acknowledge your lies as sure proof of them being scum.
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I used to live in Islington, which comes in for frequent media mockery and stereotyping, but it didn’t bother me. I don’t define my identity by where I live.
When someone’s death is reported in the media, the distance that I live from where they lived is not a factor in the amount of sadness that I feel.
The middle paragraph of the Spectator article went off on an unproven, provocative and insensitive tangent, but no worse than many redtop editorials. The first and last paragraphs I believe made perfectly sensible points.
The media attention being lavished on this pointless sideshow is almost obscene when compared to incidents that have gone virtually unreported such as the killing of 13 Iraqi civilians, including a TV reporter, by a US helicopter in front of a Reuters camera.
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I have just read the article.
What’s the problem?
With all the shrapnel flying around (particularly from Liverpudlians) I’d say he’s got the description down pretty accurately.
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Will you be resigning over this Boris?
You clearly acknowledge that you have upset many people with your comments. Your comments on Hillsbrough are quite frankly disgraceful and nonsense. Why on earth should a man in your position be able to spout this nonsense? Please go.
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Having just registered with the Spectator and read the article, most of it is hard to disagree with. The reference to Hillsborough is a little insensitive (“more than 50″ etc), and not really necessary to make the otherwise valid points. Likewise I think the “Liverpool-specific” nature is a bit over the top- its relevant to the UK as a whole. The final irony of course is how many of those so morally outraged by the piece (from Liverpool or anywhere else) have actually read it?
by the way- your views on minute silenceitis aren’t alone. check out v good article-’Death To The Minute’s Silence, Please…’
http://www.football365.com/opinion/john_nicholson/story_129651.shtml
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There do seem to be a lot of bigoted ignorant insensitive idiots in Britain whose lives must be so tedious with a inferiority complex that they enjoy making some of the disgusting comments I have seen posted. Perhaps you should look at your own lives and consider why you have resorted to this level.
Just hope you dont die lonely and sad .
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Boris,
I do hope you don’t take the ignorant ravings of these lefties too seriously. These are exactly the kind of people who’d rather stifle free speech than engage with a debate on whether or not our country really does have a culture of ‘mawkishness.’ They’re politically motivated and really quite sad. (Why exactly are they posting on a Tory MP’s website, anyway?)
I also think it absolutely stinks that even Michael Howard would rather throw one of his own to the wolves than stand up for what the Tory party is supposed to believe in. It’s hypocrisy of the highest order to spend a large part of the party conference going on about how political correctness is destroying our freedom, only to surrender to it two weeks later in the most cowardly fashion.
However, I think there’s good news here too. They say no publicity is bad publicity and this episode, bad as it may seem now, will ultimately raise your public profile. You’ve also gained notoriety, which can be a good thing if used properly. And it won’t change the way people vote. I, for instance, will still vote Tory, angry as I may be at Michael Howard’s treatment of yourself.
Anyway, just wanted to register my support. You’re an inspiration to young conservatives everywhere; you’re still the coolest MP in Westminster and one day you’ll make a great Party leader!
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Boris’s Mersey Mission
Well, the media storm, with any luck, has passed. Today a prostrate Boris, still plainly suffering from his well-discussed flu, endured a Liverpool who really didn’t want him there. I’ve no idea if Boris takes an interest in this site,…
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Boris, The outpourings of self-pitying vitriol by the people of Liverpool on todays news does rather prove your point.
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Whilst, as a Liverpudlian myself, I disagree with Boris entirely, I do agree with comments that there is absolutely no need for some of the vile language used by posters who represent a minute portion of Liverpool’s inhabitants. Most people would hope that Liverpool’s residents could make their point without reinforcing these dreadful and utterly inaccurate stereotypes of the city’s inhabitants. In fact the majority of local people would be disappointed at such behaviour.
I think all there is to say is that the media has hyped this as much as it can, don’t believe everything you read.
Such stereotypes are a real shame if it prevents anyone from taking a trip to Liverpool – if they did they would see a vibrant, exciting and diverse city; yes it’s not without its problems and share of bludgers, but the same could be said for any area really. I always believe in commenting only when you have enough background knowledge / first hand experience to be objective rather than perhaps subjective views, based on some of the media claptrap that spews forth at times.
(C:
Regards
Jane
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Mildred – “which City has one of the highest crime rates in the UK?”
Although Chris James has already put this far more eloquently than I’m sure I’ll manage, the British Crime Survey shows Merseyside to have the second lowest crime rate (crimes per thousand) of any metropolitan area in England and Wales. On most of the indicators, crime in Merseyside is lower (and in many cases significantly lower) than in Manchester, Nottingham, Bristol, Newcastle, Birmingham, West Yorkshire and, yes, London. In particular, you’re twice as likely to be a victim of violent crime in London than you are in Merseyside (or pretty much anywhere else, for that matter). Of course, as Merseyside has some of the worst pockets of deprivation and unemployment in the country, you’d expect crime to be high, yet the opposite is true – in fact, the people in suburbs of London that seem to delight in constantly peddling stereotypes are far more at risk of almost all types of crime than people living anywhere else in the country!
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A bit off topic here but whilst I applaud the call for less foul language on this board, I am less happy with the notion of avoiding language “that we wouldn’t want our wives/daughters to hear”. As a daughter myself I’m sure I have a far higher threshold for bad language than either of my parents, but my main gripe is that it is assumed all posters are husbands and fathers. How very patronising! And what a way to enforce the stereotype of Tories as family men one and all.
Reminds me somewhat of the Lady Chatterly’s Lover fiasco: we wouldn’t want language that you’d not like your butler to read now, would we? Arf.
(By the way, I’m half cross and half amused, before I get flamed for being a member of that dreaded “PC Brigade”. Although I might be persuaded to join if the uniforms were nice.)
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They’re black with a peaked beret and red armband. You’ll need to learn to goose-step too
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Fig – being gentlemanly is not patronising. Lighten up for goodness’s sake.
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